Episode 2 – Ron and The Number 27

Ron, 79 talks about being gay in the 1950’s, meeting partners driving round the lanes of Cheshire and his partner of 50 years Alan. There are stories of love and loss and rediscovering the scene in his late 70’s

This Show’s round of How I Got My Lottery Numbers is the number 27.

Ron talks openly about his relationship with Alan who he eventually married and who sadly died at the start of the pandemic in 2020, and he speaks about fun times on cruise ships and visits to clubs in Manchester which included Heroes Leather club just off Deansgate, Manchester City Centre, where men would wear similar outfits to these above.

 

Audio Transcription of the show – this is auto generated.

Audio file
Romp Podcast S01E02 – Ron and 27.mp3

Transcript
Murry
Hello, this is Ron, a podcast with me. Murray and each show I’ll have a guest on to tell their tales of gay dating. BG Before Grinder from coming out to dating and finding love in an age before the smartphone. We’ll have stories of cottaging cruising and clubbing the best date, the worst date, the weirdest, and the one that got away. Join us as we talk and laugh about ******** in the 60s. Sex in the 70s and being naughty in the 90s. I don’t know what we did in the 80s. I don’t think anybody had sex in the 80s.
Speaker
This podcast contains adult themes, so those are nervous disposition to turn off now.
Murry
In today’s podcast, I’ve talked to Ron, he’s aged 79 and is from Macclesfield in Cheshire, where he lived all of his life, and fifty of those years he lived with his partner Alan, who he later married. And as we will hear, there were ways of getting sex in the 50s and 60s despite their illegality and the persecution by the police. Will his stories of love loss and coming out and together we will hear about regrets, fear of HIV and joy of being a gay man. From the 50s to today. I started off by asking him when he was born.
Ron
I should have been born on the night of the Nonbusiness raid, so if any anybody can find that then. They know how. Old I am.
Murry
Googling as we speak, no, I don’t know. That was because the last. The last person died, didn’t he? Just last week. You know Johnny Johnson.
Ron
Yeah, yeah. I actually popped out a month. Hey, look, I’m. I’m always early for things and. That was me again.
Murry
So hang on then, so I don’t. Know when it was early. Early 1940s was it?
Ron
1943.
Murry
1943 so. You’re so actually, you’re 80 next year.
Ron
And I’m still going to a gym four times a week.
Murry
You don’t look like an nearly an octogenarian. That’s the right one, isn’t it? On here at all? You look very sprightly.
Ron
Well, the doctor keeps telling me said. Remember how old you are and you’re not 27 anymore. So yeah, but up there in the head, I’m 27. Yeah.
Murry
So that the early 40s basically. You were then 50. So the 60s is your teenage years and early, early adulthood. What? What was it like? What was life like? In Macclesfield back then then?
Ron
Well, starting at the sort of very, very early it was, shall we say, rural, compared with life as I subsequently found out, it was in in town in Manchester, Macclesfield, had had nothing like that initially, but. I think we chop into the middle. Of the of the story really. I mean when? Through my early childhood, I you know, when you’re Junior School and things like that, you know virtually nothing about those. They’ve never, ever talked about sex and the word gay was never mentioned. The first inklings that I. I always knew that I was different.
Murry
OK for for ever. Always ever. You know, like the from the first thought kind of.
Speaker 2
You know you.
Murry
Thing or from.
Ron
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, when you’re very young and then. You, you. You. Meet your cousins and. You spend some roundabout and then you start playing and. Occasionally played doctors and nurses or things like that.
Murry
Been there, done that.
Speaker 4
You know, and yeah and with.
Ron
Me. It’s always going to be doctors and. Doctors, yeah. So I knew I was different. And then of course, when I was about 8:00 or 9, the Turing affair kicked off. And although I didn’t know what was going on, it was in the newspapers. In the local news. I heard these terms about. Men who went with men and were. Queer it was all really good.
Murry
And was clear. The term used back then is that because we’ve reclaimed it today and we use it all the time, but was queer a word? Then or was it something else?
Ron
Oh yeah, it’s you, queer puff the ***** *******, all sorts of terms like that. We’re being banded about. And I mean, I didn’t really know what it was all about, but. I knew. From those reports, that was, that was virtually my first sexual education that that there were things that men did with men. And I actually started empathising with that.
Murry
And how did you empathise with that when you said? Was it an outward, you know, towards other people?
Speaker 4
Well, I.
Ron
I couldn’t demonstrate it because obviously from the court case it was, it was illegal and therefore I thought, well, I can’t do anything. In this this way, because it is illegal, I just have to maintain a low profile, as they say in.
Speaker
The military.
Murry
So you look at because this is like early 19, early 50s, isn’t it?
Ron
Early 50s, yeah.
Murry
And it wasn’t till 1967 there was any legalisation of anything.
Ron
Yeah. When I was, what, 25? So all through my after 11 plus, I moved to a an all male school and. Of course, then you end up playing games and you end up in the showers and the. You know, start sort of thinking, wow.
Speaker 2
Wow. Oh, oh, yes.
Murry
Yes, comparing each other and what you, yes.
Ron
Yeah, yeah.
Murry
If I was talking. Only in the last podcast was talking to Colin. About very similar. Experience in the in the change room showers.
Ron
Yeah. And you know then I’m trying to hide what might be a natural reaction to it all.
Murry
Yeah, he called it a. Hard on. Yes, we can. We can go.
Ron
Yeah, OK. Yeah, well, yeah, at one time, I did have a nickname. Everard.
Murry
Did you my love?
Ron
Yeah. So, yeah, I, I got through school. In fact, the sexual education. In the in. Schools at that time was non existent. Did all level biology and still almost didn’t know anything about sex. At the end of it. It was just never raised as a topic. Human sex. Yeah. And certainly homosexuality was never mentioned at all, with no reference to it. Nobody spoke about it, just wasn’t there.
Murry
But you could dissect a frog. You’d be alright with the frog.
Ron
No. You can pull both set to frog, yeah.
Murry
That was it. So what was? What were your peers like at school at that time? You know? Did they know? Did they recognize you as a, as the homosexual, as the gay or?
Ron
No, because I suspect look looking back quite a few of them were as well, but the regime at school, I think. Suppressed all of it. Whether they put bromide in the school milk or something, I don’t know. But might they did? In the army, yeah. It, it never really raised its head.
Speaker
So to speak.
Ron
Although you know since school I did I have realised that there were quite a few of my peer group who were who were gay. If you look back at it and think, yeah, it’s definitely him. He was, yes, he was.
Murry
And was it, you know, was that frowned upon? Because you know, my schooling was a bit late time in the 80s and it was there was a backlash because of AIDS and HIV and. Gaze were at the dirtiest thing, the world, so there was a backlash. But was homosexuality, even though it wasn’t legal, accepted in any way, you know?
Ron
No, it’s never talked about. It was never ever mentioned at school, didn’t exist. It was completely blanketed.
Murry
So that we just didn’t exist. So not even between your friends, though there was how you know, how did you know that others might be? How did you know to play with that person?
Ron
And of course. Just sort of. Looking at the way they behave, mannerisms and some some of the speech as well, but of course by that time in the late 50s.
Speaker 4
We had.
Ron
Radio programmes like Beyond our Ken or grown the Horn which had the sandy and jewels and they used to thought I used to sit there on Sunday afternoon doing my homework in the in the garden shed with the radio on. Listening to this lot and thinking, yeah, there are people yeah like that.
Murry
Round the yeah.
Ron
But I sort of I did. And empathise with them exactly because I didn’t speak like that and I didn’t live in London and it seemed from the radio that they all were.
Speaker 2
In London.
Ron
But yeah, that, that’s and that was the sort of second bit of my sexual education was listening to things like that.
Murry
Kenneth Williams was part of your sexual education.
Ron
Yeah. Yeah, it’s almost unbelievable now.
Murry
It is obvious. Unbelievable. Yes. It’s funny, isn’t. It how?
Ron
You know, we can go on the Internet and find out all about it in. 30 seconds flat.
Murry
Yeah. And then you know and all I had was things like John Inman in the 70s and Larry Grayson, so he still only had camp men as they as the whole the I forgot the word. Now the example.
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. Yeah. I’m Daniel LA roux. Yeah.
Murry
Danny LaRue. Becky thorn. Yeah. Crumbs. Yes, he was. He was waning by the time I got to adulthood, I think.
Speaker
I mean.
Ron
Yeah, it’s. Yeah, there’s some lovely TV programmes in in those days, but I when I was watching. Them and most of the time, we’re still at home. Never knew whether to show interest in them or to sort of. It’s a load of rubbish sort.
Murry
Yes. Yeah.
Ron
Of thing or whatever, but. You know the repeats that come on now, I sort of just sit there and roll with laughter. It’s gorgeous.
Murry
But there were cringe work making some there anything, anything that was sex in front of your parents at the time that wasn’t, you know, really just even a soap opera in the, you know, the 80s, the Brookside and EastEnders. You think I just can’t sit here and. It’s just, yeah. It’s they’re probably thinking the same.
Ron
Well, you know the we never a how dentally we never spoke about sex. You know, it’s just never mentioned at all. It seems strange these days when.
Speaker 2
I mean, I know.
Ron
People that have got kids and they there’s a lovely family that are now down in Staffordshire and they’re just openly talk about it in front of the three sons and it’s like.
Speaker
You want to.
Ron
Know the box of box of tissues in your bedroom.
Murry
God, Can you imagine your mother or my mother saying that to us? You’d rather die, wouldn’t you?
Ron
Definitely not. Not at all. You die of embarrassment, fall through the floor.
Murry
Ohh you would I know. And it’s all over. It’s everywhere. Everything now, isn’t it? It’s so open. So you’re a boy with desires. You know? It’s the early 50s. How are those desires being met in any way, shape or form?
Speaker 4
Manually and that doesn’t mean much a year.
Ron
The other thing was in the mid teens, I was sent by my parents to do ballroom dancing lessons.
Murry
OK.
Ron
So looking back, it was clearly they were trying to get me to hook up with a young lady or two or.
Murry
A nice young lady.
Ron
Great, didn’t work.
Murry
Strangely didn’t work. OK, so where did?
Ron
And then, of course, Roger. Well, right at the end of that, of course came a levels and I think I was 19 when I finally left school.
Murry
You get from there then. Right. And that was what late. 50s we are now.
Ron
About 61.
Murry
61 so and then the world, the outside world is start to change a bit there 60s, you know. Did it feel any different to you?
Speaker 2
Not really because.
Ron
I mean, first of all, spending all the time in humblest field and then?
Speaker 2
All that all.
Ron
The homework and the rest of it, I didn’t see much of the outside. World at all. I mean the highlight used to be. Holidays. We usually went to stay with cousins in South London when I was ten. I actually made a trip on. My own.
Speaker
On your own.
Ron
On the yeah, which put on the train in Macclesfield and got to London Cross London went to Charing Cross, got the train out the South side as a 10 year old not 10 year old. And got him out of the front door.
Murry
Flip your neck.
Ron
So really, until I could drive. I haven’t seen much of the world at all. And then when I started driving, of course I made the occasional foray into Manchester and then started seeing things.
Murry
Where did you go and what? Did you see?
Ron
Well, only the Union Rembrandt. There’s a club in Deansgate as well. In fact, I went there a few years later when I got a motorbike because it was it. Was it was a leather club though as.
Murry
I was going to say a man in leather turned up black.
Speaker 2
Wait, we’ve, we’re.
Murry
Leather a motorbike.
Ron
We’re jump, jumping forward a bit in history.
Murry
And that’s OK.
Speaker 4
But the.
Ron
One our last school, I actually joined the and I’m drum group and I did. In fact, I had. My first real encounter with somebody from that, because it would sort of just.
Speaker 2
OK.
Ron
Talking and then. It was somebody who obviously was interesting, interested and we. Yeah, we went out one night and experimented.
Murry
Around sunny Macclesfield.
Ron
Well, in the countryside.
Murry
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a little.
Speaker 4
Here, still. Yeah, and.
Ron
And that that was, you know, some of the first experimental lessons as. It, shall we say. But then the real education started on. Information really started when I was 21 and I said, you know, by 21 most kids these days have been at it for. What, 10 years for much?
Murry
Well, they like to tell us they have the yeah, yeah.
Ron
Yeah. And there was, I not hardly no knowing anything about it. Anyway, the 21st birthday I was given, I said, do you want to party or do you want to go? And stay with your cousins in America.
Murry
I know where I’m going.
Ron
Yeah, so Manchester Airport, one Saturday jumped on the plane and.
Murry
This you know this. Keep telling me the years cause this is again, this is early 60s again this. Is 64.
Ron
This is 1964.
Murry
You see, look at this. I can add. So it’s not just like going to the airport and jumping on the plane, it’s such a different experience. You know you have you have been smoking in the reception and you didn’t have to take your shoes off at the security. Gate, did you? You.
Ron
Oh, yeah. I mean, there’s no. You know, there were people smoking in the plane. I, I’ve never really smoked and give a I smoked about 20 cigarettes in my whole life and I don’t like it. He gets in my eyes and makes everything. And so yeah, I went off and stayed with these with these cousins in in Washington, DC.
Murry
No. Oh, it’s a nightmare. You smell? Yeah.
Ron
See, so I flew to New York. In fact, I landed at JFK.
Speaker
OK.
Ron
Just after it had been renamed because the year before, of course, JFK had been assassinated.
Murry
Of course 63.
Ron
Yeah, so flew, then flew down to Washington, met these cousins. I’d never. Seen them before? But when I got out of the plane and looked across the tarmac. And there was. A woman that looked like the double of my mother and a lad that looked like double of me. I thought, yeah, they they’re the same family. Yeah. So we had not away at the time. We’ve got a month off work. The father was the president of an insurance company or something like. And they had their own aircraft.
Speaker 2
The right ones, yeah.
Ron
So you know, we used to fly around to different places when, when? Whenever the father went to a business meeting, the son and myself where he said you lads want to come with us and we. We just go with him. And yeah, the different place. Is one night cause like where have we stopped? They’ve got a car as well and the, the love and the self went out one night in, in the car and we’re driving around this town and cause of typical American town N square blocks keep turning left and you come back. On yourself? And notice other cars. We’re doing exactly the same thing. And kept going around and Chris was as straight as it died. So he’s looking at all the birds and they’re all old and top. He’s middle of summer, all the all the tops are down. And there’s a car came alongside me, the two lads in it was led to cross and said do. You want a bit of fun? Just like I felt for Chris.
Murry
Just like that.
Ron
What they’re asking, they said earlier has been rude, so I thought. How can I get out to go with her? Because and this it was just a big cruising episode going round and. Round and round this town. And that’s stuck in my brain and we’ll come to that. In a few minutes.
Murry
So did you. Did you? I wanna. Did you get out of the car? Did you get in their car?
Ron
No, that’s the states have to stay with Chris. He was looking. He was. Looking for birds?
Murry
The yeah.
Ron
And yeah, this matter of fact, he got a girlfriend already.
Speaker
OK.
Ron
But that didn’t stop him. He’s already the American dream. Yeah, we other other very a very interesting and very, very educating.
Murry
Yes, the American dream for you. Yes. OK, that’s it. And how long were you out there anyway?
Ron
Just about 5455 may have been six weeks and I thought it was four, but it was longer than that and. Carried on at work. And one day I was driving home and picked a load up from there from me. Somebody knew from church.
Murry
You used to see hitchhikers, didn’t you?
Ron
Ohh, tell him. Yeah, I mean, you’re this guy. So I said again. The lift home.
Murry
I used to do it, yeah. And what will let me set me scene where what will be driving at this point? Is it something sophisticated?
Ron
It was a ex post office Van. Costs £10.
Murry
Did you put seats in the back as well? Cause my dad had one like that and he went. Yeah, you. You’d have to pay tax on it because it had no seats in it. Something. Yeah. Yeah. Or something? Yeah.
Ron
Yeah. If you put see some windows in so it had a windscreen that wound out no heater. And in the winter I used to put the parking heater in. The back to. Keep warm. I only had it for 12 months and I upgraded but this this night I picked this. Load up and. Was taking him back and we came behind another car, they said. You have to watch that bloke in that car in front. He gave me a lift the other night and he started. Touching me up.
Murry
Note makes note of illustration number.
Ron
And I thought makes a quick note of the. Registration number. Yeah and.
Murry
Oh, what’s that? Car again? Well, because I recognise it.
Ron
222 came home and anyway couple of nights later I saw this car so. I give it a little flush on the headlights.
Speaker 4
And then know.
Murry
Because were you just driving around randomly? At this point.
Ron
No, this was going to and. From work because he.
Murry
Oh, OK, cool.
Ron
Was he was on the same commuter.
Speaker 4
Run and a.
Murry
Right. OK.
Ron
Few nights later, he did the same thing. He pulled over and I pulled over and he was much older than me, yeah. But we did have. An introduction to. Sexual activity, shall we say, marvellous. And of course he mentioned about other people in Macclesfield and also about a pub.
Murry
OK. Because that’s what we need, isn’t it? Somewhere to go.
Ron
Yeah. And there’s probably, it’s still there, it’s called the Waters Green Tavern and in the 60s. I think it was Tuesday night. It was. A gay night.
Speaker
Oh wow.
Ron
It’s got quite busy, but the the place were always mooching around because it was still illegal the first couple of years ago until was it 60.
Murry
Yes, of course, yeah. And then we know that even making it legal didn’t change overnight. Anyone’s opinions of it did it?
Ron
Oh no, that’s wrong.
Murry
You know, we weren’t suddenly accepted with open arms, were we?
Ron
No, no. So there’s a lot of. Well, what do you call it? Not those measure provocator.
Murry
As I’m. Are we talking about toilets or just in? The pubs or what?
Ron
Yeah. Well, in the in the toilets basically. Yeah, that. So that that was somebody who always had to be. Very, very wary of.
Murry
And like public toilets. Around Macclesfield, or just in the in the pub.
Ron
No, it’s in. Not in the pub, but round and round about. Yeah. Yeah, because there’s one right across the. Road from the. Pub. Yeah, in those days.
Speaker 2
OK. Yeah.
Ron
So my friend John for the next. Few years, grossly building up a friendship with different people from the pub and occasionally disappearing off into Manchester, we you know, there’s somebody said, well, Friday night we’ll pick you up at the outside, such and such a place and we’re going to town. So start sorted then mixing with crowds and back in Manchester and you know, learning a bit more, being educated a bit more.
Murry
Educated, I can imagine, yes.
Speaker 4
OK.
Murry
I’d imagine you. Were one of the youngest going, then were. At that point, yes.
Speaker 2
Probably. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bits of chicken.
Murry
It’s quite popular. Yeah, a bit of chicken. Was it called chicken then was it?
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Murry
So we’re like early 70s, aren’t we now?
Speaker 4
Yeah, a bit low.
Ron
Late 60s if I meant still mid 60s, yeah, yeah.
Murry
Late 60s, late 60s. No, he’s still oh, so wow. So it’s. Still not legal.
Ron
Still not legal at that time. Yeah, because they have that. What’s it called? Polari.
Murry
And 67. Yes, look at the. Lallies on there.
Ron
And the father, that big Butch home over there is TBH W TBH. You know wanting to be.
Murry
Had I only know VW, but that’s contact ads later.
Ron
And of course, we have the handkerchiefs in the back pockets.
Murry
Yes, hanky codes which were you were you saved. Did you were you? Did you have any favourite handkerchiefs yourself?
Ron
Yeah, sorry.
Murry
Now you go. I’m not telling you.
Ron
No, no, chilly.
Murry
There wasn’t a red one in. The left back pocket there or. Anything like that?
Speaker 4
Or it could have been.
Ron
I’ll leave. I’ll leave.
Murry
The listener to look and key codes up themselves, but I can’t remember left up.
Ron
Red ones and blue ones and black ones and. All sorts of clothes.
Speaker 2
At the other walls, yeah.
Murry
There was a whole range wasn’t there was like 20. Of them.
Ron
Yeah. Yeah. It’s like sending, putting flags on the ship to get a message. Yeah.
Speaker
Sabre forms.
Murry
And which yeah. But which way is which if it’s in? Your back left were you the giver or the receiver?
Ron
I think you. You bought your philtres on the left and the receiver. If you was on the right. So we sort of got through.
Murry
I’ve a whole new image now I. Didn’t know what I wanted.
Ron
Got got. Got through the the middle bit of the 60s and I did, I did end up with a boyfriend, several regular boyfriend who was a chef.
Murry
Welcome back where you’re going with that? Yeah. OK.
Ron
And we had a holiday in Ireland and then found out he got another boyfriend. He’s playing two of us along all at the.
Murry
Dirty hoor.
Ron
Same time. Yeah. Yeah. So that. Sort of finished. By which time were in 1968, so we were. Legal by then.
Murry
But only over 21, of course, you.
Ron
Over only over 21 which? Of course I was.
Speaker 4
And then in 1969, yeah, I was at.
Ron
Loose end I’d. I’d changed jobs and when I changed job I bought a new car I bought a.
Speaker 2
OK. Brand new helmet.
Ron
New sport it cost me £450. So I started. Driving around Macclesfield, looking what was off and the there were quite a. Few other people. In this in the in the middle. Of summer and. One day I was going round and coming the other way. Was an MGV of.
Murry
Nice, nice.
Ron
His tacked down and. Blonde hair, do you sitting in it? I thought that’s a bit of alright anyway on.
Murry
Hello Yep.
Ron
A few times.
Speaker 2
And the.
Murry
How many? So? How many? It’s I just need to know more. How did you get to this? How did you know to follow each other? Did you just try it on and think I’ll follow him? For a bit, see if you reciprocates.
Ron
Well, yeah, we just kept driving around and then took little flash on the headlights a couple of nights later, and then the next. Week is there, that’s.
Murry
Oh, so this is this. Is over a period of time.
Ron
Oh yeah, a few weeks and then the you know.
Murry
Oh, OK.
Ron
It it’s so one night and, you know, waved the gun and he waved back. And then the next night and I was driving, driving along and noticed right behind me this time.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And we went round and then I thought right here.
Ron
Here goes and I went off out into the country. He followed me. And I could take you to the very, very spot where we stopped.
Murry
Which Rd briefly which Rd is it?
Ron
I pulled it and. It was up near Teggs nose on the way to Buxton and.
Murry
OK. Yeah, I know that road very well. Me and the cat and. Fiddle. We’re best friends.
Ron
Yeah. And I got out. He got out and I thought, is he going to punch me on the nose or what cause? He quite he’s. A bit. Bigger than me and he said. What are you after then? Said probably the same as you. And we were then together for nearly 51 years.
Murry
So how did you? That’s brilliant. How did you get from? That’s you’ve just missed the whole, like, kind of. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then we’ll get to 50 years.
Ron
The north.
Murry
You know, there was what was. Tell me. You know I don’t. I’m not like in for the in for the nitty gritty. But how did you get from there to being together? Was it just one night that you decided to be together or?
Speaker 4
Well, we we we, we.
Ron
Looked at each other. We had a little chat in the car. And we said you wanna come round to my house on Friday night? This was Wednesday. Yeah. Ohh tell you it’s the. It’s the week that men landed on.
Speaker 4
The moon and.
Ron
Then landed on the moon, I think Tuesday. We not only. Wednesday, Tuesday, Wednesday should know this. It’s in the diary 23rd and we agreed to meet on the Friday cause this house was empty on Friday because his mother used to go and stay with his sister.
Murry
The cells there.
Ron
And we so we met up at his house on the Friday night. We finally wrote about mid-day on the Saturday, completely bloody exhausted.
Murry
Bobs your uncle. Ohh, amazing.
Ron
And yeah, we were together. Just show 51 years. Wow. And we were completely monogamous. Well, that ought to. We went to London and stayed with my relatives. Yeah, and. We went out to dinner with one of my hobbies, or who became my husband’s friends in. In London, he. He was a Lloyd’s name and he also knew a guy called John Schlesinger.
Murry
That name rings a bell.
Ron
Film producer.
Murry
Yeah, OK. Yeah.
Ron
And we went out to dinner and John said there’s a new film just come out. It’s called midnight cowboy. You guys ought to go and see. So we went to see it. So the theme tune out of that, everybody’s talking became our tune.
Speaker 4
When Alan died and we were going.
Ron
Under COVID to the church, I had burnt a CD of it and stuck it in the in the car. We drove through the village here with the windows. Were warmed down and. Up the volume turned up as high as it would go, and it played three times because we got we had ponder funeral and it was it was going to be played in the church. Where we drove finally turned into the churchyard and the vicar. Was standing there and. He said. What the hell you’re watching? Honestly and. You heard midnight. Cowboy playing? Yeah, everybody’s talking wrong. Wow. Anyway, that was that was chopped. You suddenly jumped to a 50 odd years. That’s so.
Murry
It’s fine. So let’s. Back you were the one go Batman. Not monogamous. And it was wonder what you gonna do for.
Ron
Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, no, we, we were all right then. Then then I think the following year we went on a cruise and he’d been on cruises before.
Murry
The midnight cowboy. That’s.
Ron
So within minutes he was copying off with the ship’s dock. We who we knew from a previous experience, So what was good for the goose.
Murry
Let’s see. OK.
Ron
Is good for the gander. So I yeah, we we. We used to. Dilly dally a bit during the day and then we were always back together at night.
Murry
Did people just see two men who are friends, or are we talking about you out as a relationship? What was the?
Ron
No, the, I mean initially I used.
Murry
Outward appearance of you.
Ron
To come over. Here, because this was this was Alan’s house. I used to come over every sort of like Friday night and Saturday night and then it got to Friday night, Saturday night and Sunday night. And I used to go home then Monday. Tuesday and then he. He gradually moved until he was only going home for. Me. Tea. Yeah. After about 2, two or three years, so I gradually moved out. I’m I started living here. But it was the neighbours either side never bothered. They would be perfectly friendly and fight. I mean, when we had dogs. The dogs used to. Live in next door nearly lived. They lived. In in this House. So yeah, we got on with all the neighbours. Nobody ever bothered, never bothered us. Never. We never to criticised or made comment. Everybody is quite friendly.
Murry
And how how’s your mum and dad in all this though? If you you’re disappearing often nights on end.
Ron
I think that that they. Realised what was going on. Umm. Never talked about it. I never came out to them officially.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know that.
Ron
The dotted who’s with some other friends who are either some of these people and it said I think. In the it’s. The usual thing once you’re on getting married, is he courting you? No, no, I think. And my dad.
Murry
Are you caught in yet? But we always together.
Ron
Said oh, he’s shy. That’s how my dog got. Around it.
Murry
Yeah, my grandma used to ask that is he our is our David. That’s my real name. Ah David caught in and all my brothers and my parents go. Oh, no, I think he’s just really busy doing his studies and I was like, I never studied in my life. I was just, like getting. **** love. But we didn’t talk about that, yeah.
Speaker 2
Well, yeah.
Murry
Do you think she knew? She must have known.
Speaker 2
Yeah, but it was just.
Ron
Because I know Alan’s mother knew because not long after we’ve been together, I remember him saying to him. I talked to my mum the other day and she said you love Ron, don’t you?
Murry
Never talked about. OK.
Ron
So Holland’s mother had spotted it straight away.
Murry
You can tell. Can’t you really? Just, you know, we all think we’re hiding it so well and actually we’re desperate to find out how well we haven’t hidden it and how if people were talking about it behind our backs, that would have made life a lot easier. You know, coming out or something?
Ron
Well, right. Yeah. And this is well, fine. Stranger than people these days are still frightened of coming out. But there are people who are still terrified of what the family might say or what, what will be said at work. Will they be ridiculed and things like that? And I’m full enough? I mean, I never really openly came out until the day that Alan died.
Murry
Right.
Ron
And when that happened, and that was only in 2020, gosh, I thought I’ve lost everything. No, I don’t. Give a ****. I’ve lost everything, therefore. I don’t care who knows, and if they don’t like it, tough. The, the, the. Certainly the people in my last and the probably the longest job, which is a government post. But they soon got to know about it, and they were very, very supportive or I mean a lot of them said, oh, we’re coming. To the. Funeral. But we couldn’t, of course, because he, he died on March the 3rd, Friday the 13th of March 2020.
Murry
Oh wow, that’s the. That’s the beginning of that was wasn’t that the first Friday of lockdown or something?
Speaker 2
Then wow.
Ron
Yeah. So although we’ve planned the, we’ve planned the funeral not long after we met.
Murry
You’re organised.
Ron
We couldn’t. We couldn’t. Uh, we bought a grave and everything.
Murry
Really, a double plot for both of you.
Ron
Yeah, the. So that’s why we couldn’t have a proper funeral service, just a burial. We’ve got a very nice stone there and it’s got his mother went in the bottom. He’s in next and there’s then I’m going in the top and on the gravestone there’s a blank bit near the top. That’s. For me.
Murry
And do you think it’s still well?
Ron
So, well, well.
Murry
Go in the top because you know you’ve moved on a little bit.
Ron
Yeah, but. Yeah, I’ve showed up there. It’s a nice spot anyway.
Murry
Whether or not them to are turning in their grave now, you said when you’re planning the funeral, was it COVID related or? Was it something else?
Ron
No, no, it was it. It always had odd bits of illness and things and. About 10 years before, it had a big bout of suddenly was taken ill with septic arthritis. And yeah, so he’s in hospital about two months with that and managed to survive it. But the slightest infection it, he’d end up in hospital with sepsis. And I got very good at diagnosing it. But and it we got it, it nearly always happened at Chris. And the number of Christmases he spent in hospital was sort of like mind bending. But we got we. Got through the. 1919 Christmas and New Year and we said bloody hell. We had a Christmas at home, but not no hospital. And then he had his birthday on February the 6th. And a week later. Ohh, I don’t feel very well. Ohh, don’t breathe. Almost shivery. You start starting again, got him into hospital. Came out a few days later, but always before you come out with Big fistful of antibiotics and steroids and veins. And then he’d been alright again, but this time he came out with nothing, which surprised me a bit. Anyway, a week later. He, he said. I’m cold. Turn the heating up. I turned the heating on. I’m sort of sitting there. It’s pouring. And I said, you’re starting with a the sepsis again. Ohh no, not they’ll be alright anyway, an hour later he was. He was the bed was bouncing up and down. He was just shaking. So much so managed to get him into hospital and spent the first night there, then went back the following. And he seemed a bit better, went the Sunday and was just walking in and the doctor popped out and. Said can I have a word with it? So yeah, what’s going on there? Took me in a private room and said I was going to die. So you what? He said his yes, his kidneys are failing, so why can’t you give him dialysis? Because his heart won’t stand it. And what about anti antibiotics? Well, that’ll finish his kidneys off completely. What’s gonna happen? And he said he was slip into. A coma and died. So of course I was. The one the every. Three times a day. I’ve been visiting on the Thursday night. With a lady that used to clean for us and. I dropped her off back in Burlington and had said to her I’m going. Back to hospital. She had what she. Had I’ve just got a. Feeling so, I went back. And the spoke to the sister. And she said you might as well stay. I think she knew what was going to happen. So I got into bed and we slept together. I woke up in the morning my and I managed to give him a tiny little bit of breakfast.
Speaker 4
And the.
Ron
I was holding him. With arms surrounding. 10 past 11 in the morning, I felt his heart stop. And that was that. It doesn’t. What people say it gets easier, I suppose. It sort of does, but you know, every time I come in the. Back door. I still look through the house the same sitting in the in his chair in the front room. So it’s always very. Difficult coming back here.
Murry
And part of you won’t want to make it get any easier.
Ron
No, this is this is it. But you know and then of course I to to compound the fellow the lost hero was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
Murry
Ohh Ron, Flip a neck.
Ron
So we had some excellent treatment at the Christie in Manchester. Yeah. So my blood count is. Undetectable at the moment.
Murry
Oh good.
Ron
So that’s very positive. But the it’s unfortunate the one of the. The the. The three monthly injections that I’m having. Shall we say, stop me being a mom?
Murry
Yes, impotence.
Ron
Yeah, and the it’s bad enough when you’ve lost your partner, but then you think perhaps some might find another partner sometime, but then you’ve got to explain to people that you can’t do anything. Well, you can’t do anything active.
Murry
You can’t. And are you able? To I know, I know. You know, I know where the prostate is, but I don’t know about the treatment. So, you know, are you able to be passive at that point? Yeah.
Ron
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, unfortunate in a way that that’s the only side effects. And some people have terrible side effects from it. Some people have no side effects at all. And can carry on sexually just the same, and the only thing that’s happened to me is that where the radiation shoots through your hips initially it made walking quite difficult. It destroys the tissue and the joints there, but that’s.
Murry
OK.
Ron
Growing back and I’m currently on. The half well 3/4. Of the way through the. The couch potato to 5K things. So doing, doing running on the. Side I’m in the gym. And be four times a week.
Murry
And is that our necessity or is that you’ve gone? Actually, I’ve just stared death in the face. I’m living as long as I can.
Speaker 4
No, they.
Ron
A bit a bit of a bit of a bit of both. Mentally, it’s been very, very difficult but had enormous support from a group called Silver Rainbows. In fact, it was when the day that Alan died, I stayed with him for about four hours and no doctors or nurses. Came in early afternoon. So I’m just going to have to go. I don’t know what to do. So I’m saying goodbye to him. And walked out of the hospital was completely alone. We’ve got no family. And in the entrance, there’s no LGBQT display right in the middle of it was a leaflet. Or silver rainbows. And I thought. Wonder what that is. So I picked it up, had a look at it. And took it home. Ready to go? And it said, you know, if you’re if you’re old and gay, phone this number. I started meeting up with a little walking group and then I started helping on lost last year. Helped on Chester Pride, which was the first one I actually had ever done.
Murry
Ah, brilliant.
Ron
Because I’ve never been out enough to go to a pride. Event and have done.
Murry
Whilst together for 50 years you would you never catch yourself as out in that respect.
Ron
No, wait, because Alan had his own business. Fabricating things, you know, welding bits of aluminium and steel together and bushing, you know, very sort of Butch trade. And I suppose really with all the sort of people that he dealt with, which, you know what? All Butch traders. I didn’t. I don’t think he would have. He didn’t feel comfortable.
Murry
Yeah. OK.
Ron
Being out like that. Because the one thing that I always. Dreamed of us? Being able to walk down through the village. Arm and on. We did in the end. But I was holding virtually, holding him up. So because he couldn’t walk very well to get to the doctors. So we were.
Murry
It’s funny, isn’t it? When you take, when you put it in that context, no one would bat an eyelid, but you’d feel like everyone’s gonna look at you if you. Just put your arm around him otherwise.
Ron
He just walked hunting.
Speaker 4
Down, down the down the village one.
Ron
Supporting him. But he’s got a crutch. In one hand, it’s different thing. It’s like a few years before. I had an interest in leather. And if you walk around Burlington dressed in leather, everybody look at you. But if you got a crash. Helmet with you, they don’t.
Murry
That smells bad. Yeah, as long as not wearing one of them. Your caps. I don’t really. I’ve never. I’ve. They’ve always put me off. There’s a it’s like if you want to get rid of an erection, put on your cap on and it’s ohh Freddie who doesn’t know. It’s like it’s the leather. Heat cap with the with the. Uhm, the peak, it’s kind of dipped down. It’s usually studied as well, isn’t it? There’s. Well, what about your chaps?
Ron
Yeah, mine isn’t.
Murry
Do you have those as well?
Ron
No, never. I’ll never go bold enough to watch it.
Murry
Uh does it up. I used to do it in rubber instead, so it was I cause. Yeah, rubber was a I never. I never, never got on with leather and then I just go with rubber and skin tight. Yeah. Clothing it from cycling as a kid. And then I met someone who was who made rubber suits, and I actually had a pair of rubber chaps at. One point so. Which was fine until I developed an allergy to the rubber. And at the time I was wearing, I was wearing, you know, harness and these chaps. And I took them off. And I had this big Red X across my body and I had this white **** and my rest of my legs were completely covered in hives and stuff. I thought, I don’t think I’ll be going out of the rubber scene again. You’re listening to the ROMP podcast to get involved yourself. You can e-mail me at podcast at ROMP Media. You’ve obviously spent a lot of time around medical professionals and the NHS. How, over the years, how are you dealt with by them?
Ron
Ohh that’s A and a story and it’s and. It’s and. Initially it’s very difficult. You know you could go in just as ordinary outpatients and things. But when I started getting really ill, you know, piling into a an ambulance and then I’d fall on behind. So they he’d be in A and he I’d turn up a few minutes late, maybe half an hour later in the car and. They go into reception and so you come to visit Alan quite often, they’d say what? Really, what relationship are you said? No, just a friend or you can’t go in. We’re not allowing visitors yet. Yeah, but no, it got very, very difficult, so. What would it be now 11 years ago? When you could get civil partnerships, you said to him that we’re gonna let’s get a civil partnership because it’s gonna make. Whoever, whichever one of us dies first, it’s gonna make it much so much easier for the. Other one. Yeah. So we’ve got a civil partnership, which we subsequently. Operated to a wedding. But we didn’t have any ceremony. Alan just did not like ceremony at all. I mean, I would have gone to Hawaii and done it on the beach and had. A tuxedo and all the rest of it.
Murry
With your flowers round your neck.
Ron
Yeah. No, no, no speeches. No party. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. So it’s just like selling a bit of paper and that was it anyway. So the. The one when the next time we. Went to hospital, you know, they said Ohh on the civil partner that got made. A bit easier. And the in fact. Once he got married, it two very great delight because there was somebody on who was really, really sort of, yeah, who are?
Speaker 2
You what do you want?
Ron
I’m his husband. Very in a very loud voice. All the waiting you could hear. And I want to say now. Oh, yes, right. OK. This way, Sir.
Murry
Makes a difference, doesn’t it?
Ron
Yeah, and that’s what I’ve told several of my friends and acquaintances that are in gay relationships, they said. Get yourself a civil partnership at least. If not on marriage, because.
Murry
Because you can still get them, you don’t have to have the wedding day.
Ron
You could you. It will make life so much easier when anything happens. To either of you.
Murry
Yeah, legal protection. I mean, looking back, you know, in the in the 40s, fifties, did you think we’d ever have that kind of thing?
Ron
No, no, no. I mean just looking to stay out. Of jail room.
Murry
Absolutely, particularly with the police in the public toilets.
Ron
Yeah, it’s. Been interesting. Well, there’s 11 incident in the in the middle of. It all that. Of course. In the 80s. Up to the 8 up to the middle 80s it was just a. Big three for. All you know, if you if you. Met somebody. And you fancied it, you just jump into bed and away you go. Yeah. Was it? I mean, and talking to a another gay gay friend. And he said there’s a strange disease started going around. And he said because he’d just been on holiday in Spain. And he said there’s one or two people. Got it over there. And nobody seems to know what it. Is, but people are getting very, very ill with it. Of course, that was HIV. And the monthly well, we. One night, he and I did have a little cause. It he used to come with me to his leather club on the back of a motorbike and we got back here and the. And the little performance though we say.
Speaker 4
Mm-hmm. MHMM.
Ron
Totally unprotected. Of course, in those days. And when it finished. He said ohh. By the way, I’ve just been diagnosed with this new disease.
Murry
Wow, how about that then? Afterwards and actually telling you at all.
Ron
Afterwards, yeah.
Murry
******* hell.
Ron
So you can imagine. What I felt and.
Murry
Well, there was no testing. There was no way you could go. You couldn’t tell anyone.
Ron
Couldn’t tell anybody. Couldn’t dare tell them. Just sort of went into murder about two months later, this guy was dead.
Murry
Bloody hell.
Ron
And I kept looking at everything. I’m a I’m a. Developing any spots or what have.
Murry
Yeah, yeah. Paranoid about anything.
Speaker 4
We have.
Ron
Other I kept finding reasons why, because I mean we, Alan and I used to share everything. Sort of. Changing towels and whatnot so it can cause you said to be touched, door humbled or.
Murry
You never knew no one knew, did they?
Ron
No, it’s been like COVID, you know. He breathe, breathe in the. Same room and you’ve caught. It the so for a. Quite a long time, probably. A couple of years. It went on like that. I think probably at least two years. On loads of excuses why we couldn’t have sex. But yeah, that was my sort of midlife crisis in a way.
Murry
Wasn’t it just?
Ron
And it was fortunate that one we used on the Manchester Evening News and one night there was an article about Withington Hospital was doing testing.
Murry
The girl I skipped that gum clinic there.
Ron
And so I found an excuse and took myself off one night. I found it. And had the test.
Murry
And it and it. It took days to come back, didn’t it? Or? Weeks, yeah.
Ron
Take a week, they said. Come back in seven days and we’ll give you the results. The day that I was going to go back. Was absolutely horrendous.
Speaker 4
MM.
Ron
I was just shaking like a leaf. Making all sorts of excuses why, you know? What was feeling ill got flu the and. I got in the car and. Drove over there. They kept it was a. Bit like when. They’re announcing the winner of strictly or something that on the result is.
Murry
And did they pause for a long time?
Ron
That you’ve not got to.
Speaker
Good for that.
Ron
Well, I just broke down.
Murry
I bet you did.
Ron
Well, I can’t describe the emotion. After all that, that that waiting.
Murry
And how many years was the wait?
Ron
I should have to look it up. I thought two or three, but on reflection, I bet it was more like 8. It was. It was a long time because it was for long, long time. Nobody knew what was causing it or. And then they had to develop tests. Mm-hmm. And of course, if you were seen having a test, it all got reported and you couldn’t get jobs. You can get insurance, blah, blah, blah.
Murry
Mortgages. Nothing, yeah.
Ron
I mean, I just had to hope that I had not got it because that nothing was developing, but I.
Murry
Yes, you must have kind of over 8 years thought. Well, I’m not dead.
Ron
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And but nobody sort of knew whether it would sort of sit there and fester a new body and then suddenly erupt like five years later or 10 years later or whatever. And yeah, so I’ve had.
Murry
Because it was a death sentence, wasn’t. It then you know.
Speaker 4
I mean even then.
Ron
Abstaining or still carried on, having regular testing just to make sure you know.
Murry
You can. It was a good thing to do. I used to go for regular testing.
Ron
Yeah. Yeah. So that so that was a middle, a middle chunk in my life in the in the 80s was 80s. Two. Yeah, eight probably 85 to 90, maybe early 90s.
Murry
Which kind of moves us on? To while we’re in the HIV AIDS sphere, because I we had a call the other week and I’ve always said all the stories are about before Grinder, so it’s about before smartphones and then you go ah, but I must just tell you about going on. I don’t know Romper or so I. Don’t know what you got and I’m getting prep. So and I was like. Well, and that’s an interesting story for a. Man, who’s nearly 80 years old. To be going on Prep. Is a bit weird. It’s it was unexpected.
Speaker 2
Well, yeah, no. You’re quite you’re quite pleased.
Murry
Because you said it was a. Bit of a bit of. A trauma getting you on that.
Ron
Yeah. So after all, and had died for the first year, I was just in a daze. And I thought, well, and at that time, of course, I’ve not been diagnosed with cancer. So I was still quite active. So well if. You go on. Grinder and growler. I might find somebody I thought I thought, well, if I do catch somebody, I want to take all precautions, not only by using condoms, but also just in case. You know, from the mouth or whatever. Yeah. So I started trying to get on Prep because I’ve heard about it, but it was all very experimental, and it was virtually impossible to get hold of. But I found out where the clinic was near to where I was at the time and just marched in. I tried. I tried phoning up and couldn’t get through. You know this. All our operators are busy. Blah blah blah. And they said yes. What do you want? I said I want to. Talk to somebody. About crap. Ohh well you have to get. An appointment, blah blah blah. And this guy came walking down the corridor and he said that. What? What you’re after so prep. They said. Ohh well, I’m the doctor. Come in this room. We’ll see. You’ve got a few minutes. Talk to me about it. About my sexual activities or what I was hoping to get to get up. So complete, Frank, unbiased. Non judgmental. Superb discussion, said right. Two way of taking it. Two ways of taking. It if you. Are likely to just have casual, casual affairs. Then they will. No, but there’s a so-called it’s. Called the French method. If you’ve got a promise on Saturday night.
Speaker 2
The French, yeah.
Ron
You take two Saturday morning and then have your wicked way, then have another one Sunday morning. Another one Monday morning.
Murry
Because I was, I was amazed when you said that. I thought you were. You were kind of like HIV drugs because it is a form of antiretroviral drug, isn’t it? Yeah, I thought you once you started it, there’s no coming off it. And because it could, it could come back and it could start developing. But now you can say you can just pop it when you need. It kind of thing.
Ron
Yeah, it’s just like the morning after pulling away.
Murry
And I I’m amazed by you to be honest. You could have just sat at. Well, your big organ, because the listener obviously can’t. See that large kind. Of it, I would say well, it’s the type organs that we had, but it’s.
Ron
Yeah, just an electronic version of a. Big work part.
Murry
Excellent. So you can ride up and down on that like they do at Blackpool. So you could have stayed home and you could have done nothing and you could have played on that and watched strictly on the telly and never left the house. I mean, it sounds just like my life, but you’ve not. You’ve gone out and. You’ve done all this, you’ve. Discovered stuff you’ve got on Grinder and growler and.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Murry
You know and met a man or probably more than one. To be honest.
Ron
No. Well, I, yeah. Fortunate that I did meet somebody.
Speaker 4
And we.
Ron
Of very. Loving relationship. Although this person unfortunately isn’t out. And circumstances may dictate that you look. You’ll never come out, but you know we’ve got to enjoy the time. Whatever time we can get together, we do. We do enjoy it alongside that we do enjoy it. Thank you very.
Murry
Much, yes, but it’s difficult, isn’t it? It’s just, you know, you’re out. I’m out. We’re out. It’s. But for people you know, to not want to come out, we’re going like, come in it. The water’s lovely. But some people like you. We touched on earlier. Some people are really, you know, really still scared about him.
Ron
Well, yeah, it’s. I’m disappointed in a way that, after all, what my generation’s been through. And fighting, you know, not necessarily me, but the what? The organisations Terrence Higgins Trust and all. All of you know, the whole gambit of organisations that have fought in Parliament and everywhere else for gay equality. That there are still people who even in. Well, in mid midlife are feel that they’re not able to come out. They’re frightened of what the family might say. Frightened of what might happen at work. To me it’s, it’s horrible because I think that in my case I I’ve almost wasted a lot of my life hiding from my true self my authentic self. I can look back. Not just with happiness of what I did achieve, but with a great deal of regret that I have had to hide. My sexuality, through the majority of my life, I mean going back to the beginning and the defence industry and then the other industries have been involved in and and that people are still having to do that. It’s so wrong. It’s unbelievable. I’ve had no adverse comments from anybody that I’ve ever known in my life that’s still about and particularly the the, the guys that used to work with have met them on several occasions.
Speaker 2
The the goal.
Ron
We’ll be very, very supportive. They’ve been very sympathetic with me for the loss of Alan Umm and some of them said, well, we guessed anyway. Yeah. Just we just never talked about it. So you know, I could perhaps have spent another 10 or 20 years as an out person. Rather than hiding it all until 2020.
Murry
Well, Ron, you’ve been a fantastic guest. Thank you so much for coming on today. And what I have asked you to do before I let you go and before we get to how I got my lottery. First, I’ve actually to think of a couple of songs that we can put on the playlist. What is it that you’ve got for me?
Ron
Yeah. Well, there are two, actually. The first one I’ve already mentioned, which is everybody’s talking by Nilsson. On the.
Murry
We are all humming at our heads now. Everybody’s talking at me that.
Ron
Other one.
Murry
One, isn’t it?
Ron
It’s if I should fall in love again. It’s an old wartime song, but it’s got beautiful, beautiful lyrics. If, if I should fall in love again, I’d fall in love with you again. And the various people signing it. And it’s a gorgeous song, gorgeous lyrics, gorgeous tune.
Murry
I shall add both of those to our playlist. Thank you very much for that brilliant stuff. Now, before you go, we’re gonna play a game of how I got my lottery numbers now. I was a very sad person in the early 90s I had this is in effect a file of facts and I decided in my boring evening sat at home because there was no Internet to record in writing. All of my ***** from one to just happened to be one. 29 and then in the mid 90s, the 93 they announced the lottery, we needed 49 numbers. I was like right, how am I going to choose my numbers? This is how. I gonna choose our numbers. So I went through it and I I’d ranked them one and got my got my numbers. So what you’ve got to do and I’m going to tell you who this was because it’s in here somewhere. Is you’ve got to pick a number between one and 49 if you’ve had it, I’ll go, but I’ve only had one already, and I’ll tell you whether a, whether it’s a lottery number and B who they were and see if I can remember who they were. So would you like to pick a number for one to 40?
Ron
27.
Murry
It’s not a lottery number. We know that much. 27 isn’t already chosen in November 1993. Was me, me cottaging in Alderley edged car park toilets. And there were. I was. I had a two CV at the time, so I drove up to the Oakley Edge from Knutsford and I was living in Didsbury at the time, went to there and then just hung around the outside of the car park for a bit, see what was going on. I had a look. Noticed a couple of men coming and go in and I went in. Just kind of. Said there’s me E3 look. Gorgeous. And then these two, these two blokes kind of almost fought over here. We’re like pushing them out the way and I end up going off with one. And he was. Called I didn’t. His name? I know. I’m sure he. Was he was he wasn’t called Colin that. Would be very strange and he had he had. Because it wasn’t the same. And he had a Vauxhall Corsa and we went off in down a lane near Oldis car parks and had sex in his Vauxhall Corsa. I don’t know what his name was, so he’s down as others because he was down as anonymous. So yeah, so that was a nice day out.
Speaker 2
OK.
Ron
Ohh great.
Murry
Well, that brings us to the end of Ron’s podcast some fabulous stories and some regrets. As you could hear and perhaps some changes he wish he could have made throughout his life, but who knows. You can’t. Go back. So if you’ve got a story you think people might be interested in around dating and gay life, then do get in touch. I’m Murray. e-mail me at podcast. Romp media. I’ll see you again in a few weeks time.