Episode 1 – Colin and the Number 37

In this episode we talk to Colin about coming out in the 70’s and 80’s we will have stories of Moss Side Riots, ITV World in Action and Queer as Folk. The How I Got My Lottery Numbers game is the number 37.

Colin also mentions Heroes nightclub – just off deansgate, and here is a flyer for it that i found on the website g7uk.com which also has some excellent articles on Manchester gay life in the 80’s and 90’s including the Liberation March in 1991 with an excellent video and photos of the first event on August Bank Holiday in 1990 that went on to become Manchester Pride many years later.


Transcript of Episode 1 – this is auto generated

00:00:56 Colin
Good morning, Murry. Good to see you.
00:00:58 Murry
And you love how you getting on?
00:01:00 Colin
I’m alright today. It’s been a busy week but that’s great.
00:01:03 Murry
And it’s been a busy day. You’ve already telling me? I Can’t do this. I can’t do that. You need to move this.
00:01:09 Colin
i now, yeah.

You know, kind of that’s the thing about being, you know, such a person who’s around at the weekend for all these people who say it now we just need your help with this, that and the other at the moment just so that, you know, I’m going to be the bad dad who goes along to the car dealership that says you don’t want this deeper muck.
00:01:27 Colin
Yeah, you want this one instead, so that they’ll knock money off and give her a better a better deal.
00:01:32 Murry
And don’t buy all that add on stuff like what? Well warranty, I’d get a warranty, but not like kind of the we used to sell as a new car.
00:01:39 Murry
Shouldn’t we tell you this as a new car? We used to sell like a high shine thing. Diamond bright.
00:01:43 Colin
Cool. Yeah, yeah.
00:01:44 Murry
And they go, oh, you put this on £500.
00:01:46 Murry
It used to cost us £50 that so.
00:01:49 Murry
It’s that easy.
00:01:50 Colin
Know and the worst thing is like, you know you. Used to do The same when you were in the Rembrandt. It’s like come back with you, put for £50 I could put the high shine.
00:02:01 Murry
So did you get down the Rembrandt quite a lot then in your in your day.
00:02:03 Colin
It was. You have to remember I moved to Manchester probably. I think it was about 1980-1981 something.
00:02:11 Murry
00:02:12 Colin
Like that so You know that gives you a a length Of time that I’ve seen.
00:02:14 Murry
And can we ask how old we were at that point? Is that appropriate 00:02:18 Colin
00:02:32 Colin
I would have been 22 – 23.
00:02:22 Murry
OK, we’re about 10 years ahead. I did it in the early 90s, nineteen, 91 at 2122. So we’re we’re ten years apart. OK, fab.
00:02:32 Colin
So and at that time, there weren’t that many places to be able to go. So you had the Thompsons arms. Yeah. Next to the bus station.
00:02:41 Murry
Yeah. And for those that don’t, we are talking about Manchester actually now.
00:02:44 Colin
Yeah, Sackville St.
00:02:45 Murry
Yeah, down old Canal street. But it didn’t really exist as a gay village then at all. Did it? Yeah.
00:02:50 Colin
No, no, it wasn’t even a hamlet.
00:02:54 Murry
No, it wasn’t. Was it, you know.
It was, it was grim. But it was grim in 1990.
00:02:56 Colin
We loved it. We absolutely loved it, so there was the Thompsons, arms and on on to the end of the strip Was the Rembrandt and in between was Paddys Goose, which is where all the lesbians went. And then..
00:03:10 Murry
Yeah, there the new Union was there as Well down the end
00:03:13 Colin
Yeah. And then across the across the road was Napoleons, or NAPS for short.
00:03:18 Murry
Now wow, that’s been around a long Time, ain’t it?
00:03:20 Colin
You know, and that was it. And then you had to kind of troop all the way down To Deansgate, if you wanted to go because it was heroes, was the nightclub.
00:03:26 Murry
Oh wow. On deansgate? Yeah. Whereabouts on Deansgate was that?
00:03:35 Colin
It was where Waterstones is now in Deansgate that little back Road. There you have the entrance to heroes, which was in the basement, and you also had slingbys, which then became Bernard’s bar. So you know, those were the choices that were available to you so.
00:03:53 Colin
Because of that, everything was that much more intense and Everybody knew each other, even though there were special nights that things happened on so in Napoleons, you know you had the leather bar night and the bikers night.
00:04:08 Murry
Because I thought that was Just drag but.
00:04:11 Colin
They varied their nights in order to be able to up their income, so you know, if you could put on a specialist night for something. Then you put on a special night. For things you know so.
00:04:22 Murry
Because the the gay scene is not just one type of thing is it.
00:04:25 Colin
That’s right. That’s right. And so when I arrived in the 80s, there wasn’t, there weren’t many options and and so that’s why people would go for someone who’s come from the northeast of England, which is where I’m from. Just having these three or four places on your doorstep was such a step up. To other things that you had, because in most of of my teenage years when I was Out and about.
00:05:00 Colin
You would get one place, maybe up in Newcastle, which on Sunderland meant like had to get the bus or the train and you had to get get back early and it tended to be a one night in the week option where half a bar was put aside for the gays. Usually the back room.
Right. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah.
00:05:20 Colin
And you know, so you’d be there on the Sunday evening between 7:00 and 10:00, and that was your lot. So the idea of actually having dedicated full-time LGBT space Was an absolute revelation. You know, you were delighted to have.
00:05:36 Murry
So how did?
00:05:36 Murry
So if you’re living up in the North East. And you’re a young lad. 17- 18 but how did you know these places existed? Because of course you know, these days smartphone, Google it. We all know where everything is. But how did you find out about? There were somewhere in Sunderland to go.
00:05:56 Colin
I had Some friends that were already established on the gay scene And so they’re the ones who really put the word about, like, you learned about where you could go and when they were open, when was safe and when wasn’t safe and. And so you know, that’s when your heart was in your throat. And it’s like, oh, my God, I’m off for the first time Type thing and you’re walking in.
00:06:24 Murry
But how did you meet those people? Because you’ve gone “. You’ve you know, I had some friends that were gay” – I mean, to me, that’s like, oh, we didn’t have any gay friends kind of thing. I was the only person in the world kind of thing at that age.
00:06:36 Murry
How did you know?
Well, I used to attend my local church and the curate that had a copy of gay times on the coffee table So that was that was the clue. And he used to talk about his wife’s brother, who actually was one of the first people in the country to be diagnosed with HIV and die from AIDS. So he and his wife already had a very strong Social circle of particular gay men. Some of whom worked for Newcastle Friend, which was a support agency that was around for people. That was a telephone helpline, an introductory service and and so.
00:07:28 Colin
But that was the invitation to say if you’re gonna share something.
00:07:33 Murry
Wow. And that’s.
00:07:34 Colin
It’s a safe space.
00:07:35 Murry
Well, 86- 87 or something, sorry, 76 because you’re 10 years ahead of me. Sorry, 76-77.
00:07:41 Colin
Ish. Yeah, well, it would have been 78.
00:07:45 Colin
79 Yeah, it was when that was going on.
00:07:45 Murry
Wow. And in the church? That’s. Yeah, that’s quite a. I never thought you were gonna say something like that.
00:07:52 Murry
That’s you know that there must have been some raised eyebrows at that magazine being there generally. Or do you think it was put out especially for you?
00:07:59 Murry
When you went in They get the gay times out.
00:08:03 Colin
No, no, no, no, no, it was and And the nice thing is that Jonathan, who was who was secure, it would talk about other people in the estates that were in the patch for the church.
00:08:16 Colin
You know who were similar to myself, young people feeling that they were their only one and not knowing who to speak to. Not knowing that if he did it Will be safe and respected And so, you know, kind of basically, he was sending the Message of I know.
00:08:30 Murry
I’m absolutely, yeah Which is amazing. That’s.
00:08:33 Colin
They’ll feel afraid, yeah.
00:08:35 Murry
You know, that’s really good. So then you’d you’d find out that these club nights existed.
00:08:40 Murry
I was in Hull in my university years coming out. Yeah, so we’d have Monday night in some old disco that it was so old It even had an underlit dance floor, so we had a Monday and we got a Wednesday somewhere else.
00:08:51 Murry
The Silhouette Club or some flight that was all we had.
00:08:55 Colin
Wednesday evening or a Sunday evening.
00:08:57 Colin
Yeah, the quiet nights of the Week, basically, and that was it. That was your lot. So by the early 80s, a lot of my friends had their air levels and were off to university. I had before GCSE’s.
00:09:17 Murry
Well, they were. They were at O levels then were GCSE’s then were they?
00:09:21 Colin
There were G there were GCSE’s.
00:09:23 Murry
No, they were the the GCSE didn’t come in till 1988.
00:09:24 Colin
Now, now.
00:09:27 Colin
There were the CSE things I.
00:09:27 Murry
GCSE’s. Do you think it’s CSE 4?
00:09:28 Colin
Think the CSE? Yeah.
00:09:30 Murry
Did you get really grade A to C?
00:09:32 Colin
No, I got. I got four grade ones, which was.
00:09:35 Murry
Yes. So that’s the O level equivalent, isn’t it?
00:09:37 Colin
Of of a of a C grid GCSE, you know.
00:09:43 Colin
I was not what?
00:09:44 Murry
So you were. You were at university fodder.
00:09:46 Colin
Yeah, I was not university fodder, but at the time it was clear to me that in my household, my community You either emigrated, which a couple of my brothers had done to Australia. Yeah, or you got a job somewhere else, which was very rare.Or you got married and there were the only ways that you had to leave the Family home. I Had got involved in a lot of youth and community work with the church.
There was a project that was called root groups. Where people could come together to do community work in different parts of the country, but also for households together, that’s all that is my pathway to be able to move on without needing to kind of explain I’m A gay boy And I want to go and live The gay life.
00:10:44 Murry
So could you tell your parents at this point you’ve done the, you know, the cure they’ve?
00:10:47 Colin
Yeah. Well, I I put out the hints and things, but there was not. Yeah, there was There was nothing There was nothing formal.
00:10:48 Murry
Done that Wearing a frock To breakfast, as that was up here.
00:10:58 Colin
At that point And so I packed my things, got on the bus to Birmingham because that was where the headquarters were, but we, me and someone called Elaine had formed a bond. We were supposed to be a group of about six or eight people, but We formed a couple.
00:11:21 Murry
Where was the head headquarters of who?
00:11:24 Colin
Of the Root group organisation.
00:11:27 Murry
00:11:29 Colin
They had a Big house, that They operated out of in Birmingham in Tipton and so they used to have what effectively were encounter group meetings. Yeah. So the deconstruct your personality, you cry your eyes out and then you know from that very weak and vulnerable place. Shove you in the room full of other people And that was supposed to form the bonds That were unbreakable, you know? And me. Very wide eyed and innocent. Not kind of saw this coming.
00:11:53 Murry
00:11:57 Colin
Well, what I used to do cause the idea that what they used to do was say, right, we’ll have this circle.Someone will sit in the middle and then he’ll tell your story and then the people who were sitting on the outside would ask deep and penetrating questions, not unlike yourself. And then you’d cry and then it’d be like But we love you anyway and then move on to the next person. I had learned. Having seen these things many years previously – be the first one, cry quickly and then you don’t And then everyone gets.
00:12:31 Murry
Well, I thought you were gonna say I you could see this coming. I just lied all the way through mine at the end. But you went through.
00:12:37 Colin
I went first and also because Then everyone has to top where you come from. You know, it’s like, oh, he’s done this, you know, and wept. What am I going to say? I’ve got to come up with something better, you know? You know, 18 to 20 Year Old year olds.
00:12:55 Murry
What? What kind of things would People say have you any idea? You know.
00:12:59 Colin
Yeah, but you know, kind of it’s the things that You know, ohh I had my first drink When I was 13.
How could the Lord protect me Type of stuff. Yeah. You know, I once looked at a man’s bum, you know?
00:13:13 Colin
Do whatever and you were both of those, and that was the 1st 30 seconds. So you know.
Wept a bit people went oh that’s terrible. We love you Really. It’s like great back out the circle.
00:13:27 Colin
And and like the what the next one fell in is you kind of, you know, grit your teeth. But it was actually over the washing up that this, this person, Elaine Graham, and I got talking. She was at University of Bristol at the time and we just clicked so all this formal stuff of sit in the circle cry your eyes out that we didn’t need to do that.
We found that politically, socially, we were on the same dynamic, and so by the end of the washing up, we both said. Do you want To go on and do something, yeah. And she said, you know, I’m looking at being located in Manchester because there’s other things happening in Manchester I want to be a Part of. And I wasn’t thinking so much about where I wanted to be as knowing I couldn’t be where I was, yeah, so We went along for a visit. I kind of scoured the old, Let’s look at the newspaper. Yeah, the, the old gay times or gay news as it was then. And it’s like, oh, Manchester’s got things three, three or four things and it has a gay centre, a gay centre, yeah, imagine.
00:14:31 Murry
Yeah, two things. Three things we had here.
00:14:37 Colin
That track thousands of them.
00:14:39 Murry
That full of gays.
00:14:43 Colin
So so from that we decided that’s a good thing To do. And and there was a A church in Fallowfield that we’re looking for our group to come in and and work with them And that seemed like a really good fit for us. And so that began my Manchester Adventure.

So you know, we were found a house we settled in and then I went down to the gay centre, joined Friend, which is the support organisation. And so I would be on the telephone And so you do some of the, you know, kind of life awful for people. Yeah. And then you’d be there. You’re the first person I’ve told this and it’s like, welcome to the world of gays. Yeah.
00:15:37 Murry
Or yeah, imagine how how long it, how much it took to make that phone call.
00:15:41 Colin
Oh. OK. Yeah. Yeah. And you get a lot of them where It was silent call. So I developed the old banter so I’d be there saying, You know, tap the phone once for Yes, twice for no. So how are things with you? Oh, yes. I’ve been activated. Manchester. You’d love the place. Oh, my God.
00:16:01 Colin
Streets are a bit gritty, but once you. Get into the Rembrandt. I mean, I know that Place, you have to say that the JE Lees beer tastes a bit like candy floss, but you’ll Get past that And so is that something that you’d be interested in and you get the one tap and eventually people would start to to open up and talk to you. But the main job really was to be that gateway for people To come down and meet you, you’d introduce them to a few other people and then start to develop the whole networks and friendships.
00:16:31 Murry
So would you go and do the befriending bit first? We call it befriending. Don’t we go and meet someone else and then bring them into the scene? Would you do that with them as well?
00:16:39 Colin
Yeah. And then you’d launch them on the merry way. And the thing was, even though you’d say you’d launched them Onto the their merry way Because it was such a Small social setup. You always were meeting the same people. Yeah. And you know, so some of them would let on to you. Some of them became friends.
Others were happy to go their own way and make their own ways, and you know, and that was great. The fact was that people had had that opportunity to be welcomed in. Had someone who could stand with them at the bar for the first time. And be the person that said, Oh my God, I actually said hi to someone that said hi back.
00:17:19 Murry
I’ve got to. That means I’ve got to Sleep with them now that’s look across the thing.
00:17:21 Colin
Absolutely. Well, I’m not certain. That’s the right order, but you know, yeah.
00:17:27 Murry
That’s what I felt I was like, I’m not going to speak to Anyone here? I’m still here. No, I’ve got. To sleep with you, it’s just like. Never have, but you know.
So Whereabouts in the world was the gay center at That point then?
00:17:41 Colin
It was on Bloom Street.
00:17:43 Colin
Opposite what we now know is in new York, and it was in the basement. And shortly after that, the City Council employed a women’s worker and the gay men’s worker. And so Paul Fairweather was the first person. Paul Fairweather and so he was the person who helped Develop the services And administered the plans on on a daily basis for the different support groups that were in.
So you know and.It was a An amazing opportunity. The city councils themselves. It was part of their politics. There was a lot of opposition, as you can imagine, that led to a a TV appearance.
00:18:34 Colin
I think it was world in action. I can’t remember. It was one of them and they came to do an interview down at the gay centre, talking about the funding of the centre And so I was one of the people who was who was there being interviewed. And you had local councillors saying It’s not right We’re using rate payers money and there’s money for these deviants. Deviants, when really we should be focusing on.
On Manchester, in Bloom and and and What have you? And and so I’m there saying I pay rent.
So why am I not entitled to have services also as part of my contribution to this community? I’m not just someone who takes out I’m someone Who puts in And the amount of money that is spent at that time on the gay centre was less than 1/10 of 1% of what they spend on knocking down the building and making a car park.
00:19:37 Murry
Yeah. And what year are we still early 80s?
00:19:40 Murry
Now have we moved?
00:19:41 Colin
Early 80s, early 80s. So I rang our mum and Dad and said I’m on telly Can you believe?
00:19:47 Colin
I’m actually rang, actually, rang and Told them. Yeah.
00:19:50 Murry
I suppose world in action. There are only three Channels at the Time so people would have seen it anyway, wouldn’t they?
00:19:54 Colin
So they’re I am watching this behind the sofa as if it’s like Doctor Who. You know, it’s got to something like 8.23 and it’s like he’s not on. Good, he’s not being on And then suddenly I’m there. Yeah. So they’re like, oh, my God, the phone rings Like, it’s our Colin on the telly. So they were just In a state of Shock about it.
00:20:20 Murry
They were.
00:20:21 Colin
And there was talking to be done afterwards and he said your mum was just Devastated because it’s like at that point to be out and going was was shameful and you know, they had no other reference points.
There were all the people that they knew, so it was it was very difficult For them. And then he said We’ve been to the market.We’re coming home on. The bus and she’s sitting there with a face on her and he said. Smile though your heart is aching. Smile though your heart is breaking. Keep smiling through As the world there for you.
And I’m the one that’s done that to them.
So it’s like. So you’re saying a broken heart?
But shortly after that, they had a phone call from the auntie Ethel,

Not Auntie Ethel.
00:21:21 Colin
Aunti Ethel, who said I’ve seen our Colin On the on the. On the telly and you must be so proud of him because he’s standing up and being his real self. And he spoke really well And you know, that’s something that we really need to learn from, and you’ve brought them up to be this strong independent Person so you should be very proud Of him, yeah.By the way I’ve ever. Told you about our Barry.
00:21:50 Murry
Not Barry.
00:21:51 Colin
Yeah, and that was it. To their utter amazement All they got were people saying you must be so proud. You know, must be so wonderful to know. And so that was their transformative Point. Brilliant Really.
00:22:11 Colin
And then they said, Oh my God Our Collins been on on the TV. This was to me brothers and My sister And he’s gay – we Know he told us weeks ago, years ago like.
00:22:25 Colin
So we were asked to know. It’s like, yes, but why were we asked to know? Like, just think what you have just said. Ohh so.
00:22:34 Murry
Yeah, and imagine what they’ve said. Yeah. Without that, without the people I’ve seen you on the TV supporting them first, they would have been devastated had they only them know, wouldn’t they, actually? And they had gone through all kinds of trauma.
00:22:34 Colin
So it was transformative for them.
00:22:47 Colin
You know, because you know you’re still living in.
00:22:49 Colin
The time when.
00:22:51 Colin
If you were going to grow up gay, what would the reference points?
00:22:55 Murry
On Edmond.
00:22:55 Colin
Yeah, but even even people like John Lennon and and Larry Grayson aren’t aren’t sexualised. No, they’re not real. They’re men.
00:23:06 Murry
But that’s all.
00:23:06 Colin
It would be nice to be real gay.
00:23:06 Murry
We had, wasn’t it?
00:23:08 Colin
There. Yeah. You know, the things that we could look forward to is, you know, you’ll get your complimentary raincoat and you don’t wear anything underneath it.
00:23:18 Colin
You go out into the parks at three in the morning and open it up and schedule.
00:23:23 Murry
We’ve taken a turn. Where did this come from?
00:23:24 Colin
And when you wanna, yeah.
00:23:28 Colin
You got you. You’re going to die a sad and lonely death. Be bitter and twisted. And if you work for the government, you’ll betray them and run off to Russia.
00:23:37 Murry
Yeah. And then be concentrated.
00:23:38 Colin
And that’s that’s the only reference point. Yeah, they were the only reference points that they had to go on. So the idea that.
00:23:49 Colin
You could be out and proud.
00:23:51 Colin
And live a good life with something that was.
00:23:54 Colin
Something that they had to learn on their.
00:23:57 Murry
Journey. But these were the only reference points you had as.
00:24:01 Murry
Well, yeah. So you know, how did, how did that translate into life?
00:24:02 Colin
Yeah, but I I was lucky.
00:24:06 Colin
Yeah, but I was lucky because I met the curate. Who then?
00:24:12 Colin
Gave me a a different.
00:24:15 Colin
Tag on what it meant to be your authentic self.
00:24:19 Colin
Yeah, and that was.
00:24:20 Colin
OK, to be and and also to realise it’s a part of who I am, but it’s not the only part of who I am.
00:24:30 Murry
Well, I’m not sure.
00:24:32 Colin
I am and and so you know, I’d I’d.
00:24:38 Colin
I’ve been given that possibility.
00:24:41 Colin
To know that things could be different.
00:24:44 Colin
And you know, you’re talking about when did you know? I’ve.
00:24:46 Colin
Never, not not.
00:24:47 Speaker 3
00:24:48 Colin
I’ve never got long and you know.
00:24:54 Colin
Barry, Ethel’s son. He only lived at the end of the road. He was six weeks.
00:24:57 Colin
Younger than me, so he and I used to have a lot of fun growing up together.
00:25:05 Colin
And so.
00:25:08 Colin
We’ve we always knew that there was something unique to us, that there didn’t seem to be amongst the rest of the family that we had.
00:25:15 Murry
Now that’s nice.
00:25:17 Colin
We were able to confide in each other as youngsters, but knew you just kept this away from everybody else because there wasn’t.
00:25:28 Colin
It wasn’t something that you could talk about.
00:25:30 Murry
And do we?
00:25:31 Murry
Because yeah, it wasn’t 10 years later for me a lot. But how did we know it wasn’t something we talked about, you know, was the general homophobia around, do you think? Was it you’d seen and heard saying?
There’s all sorts.
00:25:43 Colin
Well, not just that because you know, Stranger Danger was still around in the bank.
00:25:49 Colin
And it’s always the man you know, in the raincoat who preys on little children, you know.
00:25:52 Murry
In the ranking, yeah, which equals gay, doesn’t it? Paedophilia equals gay. Yeah, for a.
00:25:58 Murry
Long time and.
00:26:00 Colin
If there were any stories in the in the newspapers, it was about stars who’d been caught cottaging. So I remember, you know, when Peter Wyngarde, who played Jason.
00:26:12 Colin
The king was done for Cottaging was like Jason King. Jason king? Yeah, he was in department desk and then he was in his own spin-off show called Jason King. Yeah. So he was this, you know, super suave, sophisticated.
00:26:15 Murry
What programmes that is that like the persuaders of?
00:26:18 Murry
Is that actually the name of?
00:26:19 Murry
The show.
00:26:34 Colin
Gentleman spy.
00:26:36 Colin
And he took one look at him in his 70s outfits.
Yeah, with his.
00:26:40 Colin
Bouffant hair and his **** star moustache and now you’d be looking at it and going ohh.
00:26:45 Colin
Please, why didn’t anyone guess?
00:26:49 Colin
So, but those were the the only reference points again that we had were the the either the kiss and tell or something selected, as has happened, which is beyond the pale and just goes to show that these people can’t be trusted.
00:27:04 Murry
They’re not normal.
00:27:06 Colin
Not normal. And they and they’re and they’re living in men’s toilets and you.
00:27:06 Murry
Not like me, you.
00:27:12 Colin
Know and so.
00:27:14 Colin
That’s where things that’s where things happened.
00:27:21 Colin
Because it was considered an aberration.
00:27:26 Colin
For me, and I think also for Barry, he kind of told there is a point when.
00:27:33 Colin
You’ll get a girlfriend. You’ll get married, you’ll have kids. And that’s your future. And that’s how it was for everyone around us.
00:27:40 Colin
So thank you. Waiting for those things to kick in. But in the meantime, I’m going to go off and play doctors and doctors or nurses and nurses with so.
00:27:49 Colin
And so, you know, it’s like people would say to me, you’re really hard to find you. And so and so in hide and seek. And it’s like, yeah, because we weren’t playing hide and seek we.
00:27:58 Colin
Were seeking what?
00:28:00 Colin
We were seeking what other people were hiding so.
00:28:05 Colin
And and that’s how it was, you know. So when it finally becomes crystal clear that this phase is permanent.
00:28:13 Murry
Yeah, it’s not going away is.
00:28:14 Colin
It ain’t going away.
00:28:17 Colin
I was in that lucky place.
00:28:20 Colin
To know that there was someone.
00:28:25 Colin
Who was straight?
00:28:29 Colin
But had understanding and compassion, who was willing to listen and then be that gateway to me that I then became for.
00:28:38 Colin
Other people to me.
00:28:41 Colin
So in that sense, I’m I was immensely lucky.
00:28:47 Colin
But the other thing that used to happen is as a as a youngster.
00:28:52 Colin
And at school, you know, you could see people forming these relationships in your school and that.
00:29:05 Colin
I couldn’t share.
00:29:08 Colin
What was happening to me because the risks for any child at school, you know, it’s like.
00:29:14 Colin
It’s an incredibly cruel place.
00:29:17 Colin
And those who say, you know, these are the.
00:29:19 Colin
Best years of your life it’s it’s.
00:29:22 Colin
It’s like you selling a car.
00:29:23 Colin
You know with with a.
00:29:25 Colin
£500 shine on.
00:29:28 Colin
It’s like, don’t you believe it? Yeah.
00:29:31 Murry
But they they were good years though, but there was the potential for bullying, wasn’t there? And I got a little.
00:29:35 Murry
Bit bullied but.
00:29:37 Murry
And so there were difficult teenage years for me, but the earlier years I had a ball. I think overall my school years were great, but.
00:29:46 Murry
Yeah, you couldn’t come out. There was no support for that kind of thing.
00:29:49 Murry
How’s that?
00:29:50 Colin
I was.
00:29:52 Colin
Small I was scientific. I was a nerd. I wore glasses. You know, I was Walter in the Dennis the Menace. Comics, you know.
00:30:03 Colin
Like I was done.
00:30:05 Colin
For and then to be gay on.
00:30:06 Colin
Top of it.
00:30:06 Colin
I mean, you know, you got all the slurs anyway.
00:30:08 Murry
You you had every single point to be bullied by the four, didn’t you?
00:30:12 Colin
I was and I don’t know how it would have been for you. But when we lined up for sports, I was the one, you know, they would have picked.
00:30:20 Murry
Last one.
00:30:21 Colin
Yeah. Yeah. It’s like, you know, if there was a cockroach, I would have picked the cockroach ahead.
00:30:26 Colin
Of me.
00:30:27 Colin
You know, I was always.
00:30:29 Colin
In playing football, I was always in defence.
00:30:32 Colin
In the team. But you know the best team because the ball was always at the other end.
00:30:37 Colin
Of the pitch.
00:30:38 Colin
Yeah. And so I’d be standing there trying to pull me shirt over my knees cause it was bloody freezing.
00:30:45 Colin
And you know, that was it as it was. I did develop some really good friendships in my latter years at school.
00:30:56 Colin
With people who were of a a like mind, not not a like experience. I don’t think any.
00:31:00 Colin
Of them would care.
00:31:03 Colin
But you know, so I went through those, those years of puberty, falling in love about four.
00:31:08 Colin
Times a day.
00:31:10 Colin
And and you just could never. I could. There was not an opportunity to speak to.
00:31:14 Colin
Anyone about it?
00:31:15 Murry
I did fancy the games teacher though.
00:31:18 Colin
Did you?
00:31:18 Murry
Yeah, he was a rugby player. I’ve always had to.
00:31:20 Colin
Loading memory.
00:31:21 Murry
Think about rugby players ever since.
00:31:23 Colin
Well, yeah, but also Mary, this was my first time, you know, going to senior school and being shown the showers.
00:31:31 Colin
Yeah. Like what? Yeah, like, yeah. You go in there, you take all your clothes off with other people as if it’s completely normal.
00:31:40 Colin
And it’s like what eh?
00:31:43 Colin
Sorry, you know.
00:31:44 Colin
It’s like I.
00:31:45 Colin
I came from a home where, you know, no.
00:31:47 Colin
One saw anything? Yeah.
00:31:50 Colin
And and you know, so it was just taken as red. Like you will be naked in the shower with other people. It’s.
00:31:56 Colin
Like, yeah, so you know.
00:31:58 Murry
And try and then trying not to look.
00:32:01 Colin
Try not to look. Everyone’s trying not to look because then of course you’ve got.
00:32:03 Murry
The have envelope.
00:32:04 Colin
The boys who are going.
00:32:05 Colin
I’ve got a.
00:32:05 Colin
Big one now? Yeah, and.
00:32:07 Colin
I remember one of them turning round to me and saying how come the gay boys got a moustache and cubes? It’s just, you know, it’s not fair and it’s like, I don’t know.
00:32:17 Colin
Can’t it just happens.
00:32:20 Colin
So I’m fairly certain that there were, you know, there was probably a lot of testosterone and opportunity, but you know, it was. It was too scary, the risks.
00:32:29 Murry
And it, yeah, it took you either found out or you or you took some great big personal steps to come out in an environment like that.
00:32:38 Murry
And you just. Yeah, I people people thought I was gay at school and there was a lad who I was.
00:32:45 Murry
I was having kind of a relationship with kind of relationship with outside of school and then he wrote a letter to me, everlasting love for all this kind of thing. As a teenager, it was in my back pocket and someone stole it in my back pocket and it was around the school.
00:32:58 Murry
About 10 minutes. So yeah, so I was outed as cool. But I I was able to deny because it was written to me. I deny.
Is it?
00:33:05 Murry
Because I wasn’t in that position.
00:33:07 Murry
No, but then he failed all his own levels because of the the bullying and the stress that he got from him.
00:33:13 Colin
Absolutely, absolutely. You know. And so as I said here, when people say it’s the greatest days of your life, it it for, for people, for me, I’ll own it. For me it was.
00:33:27 Colin
Potentially death. Yeah, in a sense, socially.
00:33:32 Colin
Everything else because you know if it if it.
00:33:34 Colin
Was now then it would have got.
00:33:36 Colin
Back to the parents and the school.
00:33:38 Colin
And you still have to go to school, so it would just stay with you. And you knew other people in the school.
00:33:44 Colin
Who got a?
00:33:45 Colin
Name or a reputation for something that’s.
00:33:48 Colin
And there wasn’t anything you could do about that. You know it. It stayed with you and.
00:33:50 Murry
No, it was every man for himself, wasn’t it?
00:33:52 Colin
Just too close to me.
00:33:54 Murry
You’re listening to the ROMP podcast if you’d like to get involved and have a story to tell, you can e-mail me at podcast at romp Dot Media.
00:34:03 Murry
So we’ve so that we’ve finished.
00:34:05 Murry
School we’ve moved to Manchester and you’re in Manchester in the in the early 80s.
00:34:09 Murry
We’re not far from actually aids hitting us, really, are we? And that’s and that hit, particularly the Rembrandt that hit the Rembrandt.
00:34:15 Murry
Quite hard, didn’t it? Into the in the early 80s and into the.
00:34:19 Murry
It is.
00:34:20 Colin
It was devastating and you know, if you’re anything like me, I was on Manchester, friend, that he’d start to get phone calls from people saying I’ve heard about this disease.
00:34:33 Colin
It’s over in America, but it’s known as a gay play, a gay play. And so by that point I already knew someone who died.
00:34:44 Colin
Which was my curate’s brother-in-law.
00:34:48 Colin
So it was his wife’s brother, who was one of.
00:34:50 Colin
The first ones to die and then.
00:34:54 Colin
THT was set up. Yeah. Terrence Higgins. Trust. And. And so you had people from Terrence against just coming out to brief all the different national care helplines with what we then knew, which was very little. Yeah, very little.
00:35:11 Murry
Yeah, there was a death sentence when there was no.
00:35:14 Murry
Treatments was there so.
00:35:16 Murry
You know.
00:35:17 Colin
And at that point, there were no.
00:35:18 Colin
Real tests, we just knew.
00:35:20 Colin
You have people who are becoming ill.
00:35:24 Colin
And and when they became ill, they didn’t have long to.
00:35:28 Colin
Live after that.
00:35:30 Murry
Yeah, it was too late by.
00:35:30 Murry
Then wasn’t it?
00:35:32 Murry
Because there was no cure, there was no treatments for anything.
00:35:36 Colin
And and so healthy game Manchester was set up, which then became Manchester AIDS line and ultimately now is George House Trust.
00:35:52 Colin
And they were recruiting volunteers, but at the time I was very much involved in the gay centre.
00:36:02 Colin
Eventually I I joined George Hess trust. Eventually I became chair of George Change Trust, but at the time it was still the case of trying to introduce new people.
00:36:13 Colin
Well, everyone was terrified. Absolutely, you know.
00:36:15 Murry
You. Yeah, I remember.
00:36:17 Colin
It was the gap flag.
00:36:21 Colin
We assumed it was some kind of sexual transmission, and of course the powers that be the James Andertons and the.
00:36:28 Colin
Others you know.
00:36:29 Colin
Where we were swirling around in this aspect of our own creation.
00:36:32 Murry
Indeed, that that was.
00:36:33 Murry
8687 or something? Was it that?
00:36:37 Colin
Yeah, you know, and, you know, people were talking about us being sent off to an island so we could get on with it.
00:36:44 Colin
You know, but at least we protect everybody else. I’m thinking, what’s this fantasy?
00:36:49 Colin
Island, you know.
00:36:51 Speaker 3
It’s the plane. It’s the plane, yeah.
00:36:53 Murry
Do you remember that? Yeah.
00:36:56 Colin
Jumbo jets with the people kind of coming in, you know.
00:36:58 Murry
1,000,000 but then you then you’d have to around. Then everybody would have to have been out and and been rounded up. So it’s like not as if everyone was out at that point. You couldn’t identify us, could you?
00:37:10 Murry
Well, most of us.
00:37:11 Colin
And you and you all you always knew.
00:37:14 Colin
That the island.
00:37:16 Colin
Was at the end of a railway line which had really nice showers for.
00:37:20 Murry
You. Yes, indeed.
00:37:22 Colin
That’s what they were saying. Yeah, is, you know, let’s find a place where these people can either die or we can look after them in the beds until they’re dead.
00:37:31 Colin
And by look after them, me lock them up and forget about them.
00:37:34 Colin
Yeah, and. And so sax equal death.
00:37:40 Colin
And just watching how this disease devastated, what was a happy, thriving population of people who were just busy celebrating, being their unique and authentic selves.
00:37:54 Colin
And yet we’re getting all this stuff about. You know, you can’t reach from the same cope. You can’t reach the same towel.
00:38:00 Colin
Does it sound familiar?
00:38:01 Colin
Hmm, does it sound like anything we’ve been through in?
00:38:04 Colin
The last.
00:38:05 Colin
Couple of years, you know? Yeah.
00:38:08 Colin
This idea that, oh, it’s your job to protect everybody else. And if you don’t follow the rules, you’ll kill people. Very familiar.
00:38:19 Colin
Very familiar. So for anyone who kind of wonders what it was like to go through that at the time you’ve been through it. Yeah, you were told it.
00:38:23 Murry
But it was.
00:38:27 Murry
Yeah, but but didn’t just relate to everybody. So we’re all in the same boat it.
00:38:31 Murry
Was one specific group.
00:38:33 Murry
So, you know. Yeah. God, yeah, it was. They were horrible to. So how did you do dating in a with that hanging over you cause even in the 90s when I came out.
00:38:41 Murry
It was still there. We still had it massively because we had to, because it was still big. But how did you do it in the 80s?
00:38:48 Colin
Well, different people did it in different ways, because by 1983 I’d met my partner.
00:38:54 Murry
Oh, so this this podcast over there, love.
00:38:58 Murry
00:38:59 Colin
Yeah, and initially he was someone who I introduced as part of friend into the gay scene. He developed his own social circle.
00:39:09 Colin
So as I said.
00:39:09 Colin
He’s still encountering people because it’s a small scene.
00:39:12 Colin
Yeah, but he decided he then told me later that I was going.
00:39:16 Colin
To be the.
00:39:16 Colin
One for him forever. Ohh.
00:39:18 Colin
So he then put a plan of action into play to kind of come and get me, but that’s.
00:39:24 Murry
Because you couldn’t. You couldn’t phone up, you couldn’t e-mail and text. It was, uh, it was a kind of you had to bump into someone or have their landline to phone them.
00:39:33 Murry
On, didn’t you?
00:39:34 Colin
I’ll try and put you know.
00:39:36 Colin
Kind of. You didn’t have to hunt very far to find people.
00:39:40 Murry
Because they were all in one place.
00:39:42 Colin
I’ll try and.
00:39:43 Murry
If they went every weekend, though, you had to be out every weekend or.
00:39:44 Colin
You know.
00:39:47 Colin
Well, you know, but also.
00:39:47 Murry
All the risks, the risks of you’re never meeting. It’s like sliding doors this.
Oh, no, no.
00:39:52 Colin
He was cunning because what he would do is ring up the gas centre and find out. When I was on duty.
00:39:56 Murry
Oh oh, I see.
00:39:59 Colin
So he knew when I would be going out to the pubs and clubs to bring in new people.
00:40:03 Murry
Is a name for people like that.
00:40:06 Murry
People get dumb. She’s like that now.
00:40:06 Colin
So yeah, you have the plum, you have the plums.
00:40:11 Colin
But in terms of where I met people.
00:40:13 Colin
You see, I’m.
00:40:14 Colin
A firm believer I don’t know about you.
00:40:16 Colin
I’m a firm believer.
00:40:17 Colin
That we’ve all got a gift.
00:40:21 Colin
A. A gift about how you can connect with other people. Yeah, a.
00:40:28 Colin
The two things that I’ve developed, one is I can be a listener.
00:40:37 Colin
And I learned how to listen because as a teenager, if you listened to other people.
00:40:44 Colin
It meant that they could share stuff with you that they didn’t feel safe sharing with other people, but it also means that you didn’t.
00:40:51 Colin
Have to talk.
00:40:53 Murry
I couldn’t possibly comment on that myself.
00:40:56 Colin
Yeah. And I learned that.
00:41:03 Colin
I could.
00:41:06 Colin
Chat and and either a bit of a sense of humour. So those were the things that worked in my favour.
00:41:14 Colin
And and I used to go on a load of conferences, so I’d be there on a weekend conference and you know, kind of the bionic I would be going round just to see and you that’s how I was making Connexions. And because you were away from home when you were in dorms or whatever, then hookups became possible.
00:41:33 Murry
Oh, God, don’t you dare. The risk of getting beaten up for me was too much to.
00:41:37 Murry
Say anything like that?
00:41:38 Colin
Ohh, you know, by the time by the time it was like kind of.
00:41:42 Colin
I’ll be sharing the sleeping bag tonight.
00:41:44 Colin
You know you’ve already done the.
00:41:46 Colin
The what you needed to know.
00:41:47 Murry
We stood in the corner, bent over, going, looking backwards, going hi, boys like that or something.
00:41:51 Colin
Ohh you know and also because I was I was by that point going on these conferences as the OK man for the people choosing.
00:41:57 Murry
Right. Oh, so you your reputation preceded you?
00:42:01 Colin
But tracked you know, so anyone kind of catching the eye, they knew what they were in for.
00:42:08 Colin
But I would just sit and chat to.
00:42:10 Colin
Them, you know, and I remember being on one conference.
00:42:15 Colin
And there was a a guy there. I was in the conference and he stood up to speak as Scott from Glasgow.
00:42:24 Colin
And it was like sweet mystery of life. At last I found you. He looked like Trevor Reeve, a young Trevor Reeve in his shoestring, does, and it’s like.
00:42:34 Colin
You know, and so and he was in the boys brigade.
00:42:40 Colin
So we’re all sitting around the table and so I’m about half a mile away from them. At least that’s how it.
00:42:45 Colin
Felt and people knew I fancied them.
00:42:49 Colin
So the next thing you know, there’s do you know those little games that I used?
00:42:55 Colin
To play where?
00:42:56 Colin
It’s a a box with all these different pieces in that are out of order and you.
00:43:00 Colin
Have to slide them.
00:43:01 Colin
Around them.
00:43:01 Murry
Ohh, just like a flat a flat.
00:43:02 Colin
In order to.
00:43:03 Colin
Make the picture, yeah.
00:43:04 Murry
Thing up, down, left, right kind of thing. Just love them with one missing in the corner. So you.
00:43:06 Colin
I tried.
00:43:08 Murry
Can move them all back, yeah.
00:43:08 Colin
I’ll try.
00:43:10 Colin
My friends did that. They all start.
00:43:10 Murry
The kids, the kids won’t know what they’re.
00:43:13 Colin
Now they all started swapping places and saying, oh, Colin, would you mind just sitting here because I wanna choke us all. And then suddenly the only space available was someone next to him.
00:43:24 Colin
And so we got chatting and he said Ohh, I’ll come and see you later for a chat. And I said OK, rush back to the room I was in.
00:43:32 Colin
You know, so, uh.
00:43:34 Colin
What? It’s drunk. Rude, drab room. Have this piece of fabric. I think it was a handkerchief or something that I draped over the over the table lamp just to kind of create some ambiance, then realised actually, it’s starting to smell that off.
00:43:49 Colin
By a risk.
00:43:52 Colin
So he arrived at the room and we’re going chit, chat, chit chat. And I’m thinking this is going in the right direction. Then there was a.
00:44:00 Colin
Knock on the door.
00:44:02 Colin
And it was one of his.
00:44:03 Colin
Men saying, oh, I didn’t know.
00:44:05 Colin
Where you were.
00:44:06 Colin
And I understood, but this was the place to be tonight. So his mate came in, he said. I’ll see you later.
00:44:14 Colin
Like, OK, so I’m there with the maid to thinking.
00:44:24 Colin
I’m looking at him and thinking.
00:44:27 Colin
Things are happening here, so do I, don’t I? Anyway, the next thing you know, it’s about half an hour later.
00:44:34 Colin
There’s a knock on the.
00:44:35 Colin
Door again and it’s the original guy saying it’s a bit boring out there.
00:44:40 Murry
Is the first bloke still here?
00:44:41 Colin
No, no. The first, this was the first bloke coming back.
00:44:45 Murry
Ohh cause I’m confused now. I thought this was the I thought the the new bloke could come in was the one who stayed and the.
00:44:50 Murry
Other bloke left the original alright, OK.
00:44:51 Colin
Yes, I’ve tried.
00:44:52 Colin
The original 1, the one I fancied, had.
00:44:53 Colin
Left, his mate was still in the room.
00:44:56 Murry
Yes. So what happened there?
00:44:56 Colin
For him, for chat, for chat.
00:44:58 Colin
Nothing. Nothing. I’m just, like, kind of full of all this kind of lust and love thinking.
00:45:06 Colin
And and then there’s another.
00:45:07 Colin
Knock on the door and it’s.
00:45:08 Colin
And it’s it’s a.
00:45:09 Colin
Trevor Reeve, guy back.
00:45:11 Murry
So. So there’s three of.
00:45:12 Colin
You. Yeah. And at which point it’s like, so the other one, I think so also was asking for you. Right. Sorry. But I’ll see you later. So the one who, the cockblocker.
00:45:24 Colin
Spanish golf.
00:45:26 Colin
The door closed and we’re sitting next to each other and I said, you know, you’re almost close enough to kiss.
00:45:32 Colin
And he said, how close is that? I said this close. So the next morning we go down to breakfast together. All my friends like.
00:45:44 Colin
I walked to Glasgow to see him thinking this is going to be, you know, sweet mystery of life. Meet his mother, who says? Yeah. And he’s gonna be a dad in 2 weeks.
00:45:58 Colin
So he was he was the one.
00:46:00 Colin
That got away.
00:46:01 Murry
Wow, that’s amazing.
00:46:03 Colin
And they, you know, the sad thing is now.
00:46:08 Colin
I know but.
00:46:11 Colin
You know, it was me that then put the.
00:46:12 Colin
Block on that.
00:46:14 Colin
Because I was still of the mind of.
00:46:17 Colin
Well, you know, you’re gonna be a dad. You’ve got a family. I can’t be the other.
00:46:24 Colin
Person in this relationship.
00:46:27 Colin
But who knows? Wow.
00:46:29 Murry
And do we know any idea where he is today or what happened beyond that?
00:46:34 Colin
Oh, I do. I do.
00:46:36 Colin
But that’s for me to know.
00:46:39 Murry
Brilliant stuff.
00:46:40 Colin
But as I said, it was mainly through conferences and that because, as I said, I think everyone’s got.
00:46:46 Colin
A gift.
00:46:48 Colin
Everyone has a way to make that connexion with someone and my.
00:46:53 Colin
Was about getting to know people having a chat, listening to the stories and building that rapport, that relationship.
00:46:59 Colin
And you know, that never worked in the nightclub, you know, by this time, places like high society had opened up.
00:47:07 Colin
So if you went in there, it’s like the chances of you actually listening to a conversation.
00:47:12 Colin
Were next to nothing.
00:47:12 Murry
Yeah, it wasn’t about that was.
00:47:13 Colin
It, and if you ever turn to someone and said so, do you want to tell me your life story? It’s like you just want to get in.
00:47:20 Colin
Knickers, don’t you?
00:47:22 Colin
Now it was the nightclub scene was never gonna work for me. It it’s all the relationships that I entered into were because I got to know people. Yeah, really.
00:47:34 Colin
I’m not saying that there weren’t.
00:47:36 Colin
You know, brief encounters. You know you can get to know someone in an hour or so, but it still required me to kind of do that little chat.
00:47:44 Colin
You know, have a bit of fun. Tell a few funny stories or whatever. That’s the way that I made my connexion with people. The idea of, yeah, the idea of just you.
00:47:51 Murry
Or bitter charm.
00:47:54 Colin
Know kind of.
00:47:56 Colin
What you’re doing later, and you know all those.
00:47:59 Colin
All those things that you could, you know, those really awful chat up lines that are supposed to work so well, you know, watch your temperature.
00:48:08 Colin
Cause I think you’re a bit.
00:48:09 Colin
Of hot stuff or whatever.
00:48:12 Colin
And you know.
00:48:13 Colin
It’s like they’re never gonna work for me. No.
00:48:17 Murry
Your your your knickers would look great on my floor or.
00:48:20 Murry
Something but I.
00:48:20 Colin
That’s right, you know.
00:48:21 Murry
See, they don’t work for me either.
00:48:23 Colin
You know things like, you know, do you fancy a meal? How about breakfast?
00:48:31 Colin
Kind of long your ten piece so you can ring mum and so.
00:48:33 Colin
You’re not coming.
00:48:33 Colin
Home tonight or whatever. It’s like, you know.
00:48:38 Murry
No, but they’ve lost. I think they’re lost now, aren’t they? Cause no one goes. Does that kind of thing anymore?
00:48:42 Murry
It’s so you look at the ****, you go. That’s decent ****, I’ll.
00:48:45 Murry
Go round.
00:48:45 Murry
To your house, love, I think.
00:48:46 Colin
But the one the the one story that I think you’ll love. This is before I met my partner. And by that point I was living just.
00:48:59 Colin
Near main Rd.
00:49:03 Colin
By what was then Manchester City football ground. So I was with someone who again was interested in me and I’m like, kind of, oh, sorry. Come round for something to eat. And it was during the Moss Side riots.
00:49:17 Murry
Yeah, but you forget about those early 80s.
00:49:20 Colin
So there I am and thinking it’s time for him to go because he needs to get his bus.
00:49:24 Colin
Well, so I’m doing the wind up and you know, kind of he’s wanting to stay. I’m thinking no, thank you.
00:49:32 Colin
So I opened the front door and the car explodes in front of these rioters run past there’s there’s a police van with coppers hanging at the back with the buttons, so he comes back into me.
00:49:45 Colin
House rings his mum and says I won’t be home tonight because there’s a riot outside and his mum’s going any excuse.
00:49:52 Speaker 3
I know what you mean in kind.
Tell you later.
00:49:58 Colin
And so that’s another ex. Yeah. So, you know, kind of that’s the one who stayed.
00:49:59 Murry
You were stuck with him.
00:50:03 Colin
That’s the one.
00:50:03 Colin
Who? That’s the one who got where?
00:50:07 Murry
Oh, God. So you’ve basically you’ve been together for 40 odd 40 years, then about now.
00:50:12 Colin
It’s it’s 40 years next year.
00:50:14 Murry
Oh, oh, well done.
00:50:16 Murry
That’s an unusual thing on the gay scene as.
00:50:18 Murry
Well, isn’t it? Did you ever watch?
00:50:22 Murry
Oh no, I’ve forgotten this.
00:50:22 Murry
Title queer as folk. Yeah. Did you ever watch?
00:50:24 Colin
David Pearl.
00:50:25 Murry
Queers folk because in there there was a line waiting for the next one.
00:50:28 Murry
The next one might be the one, so I’ll go for another one kind of.
00:50:29 Colin
Right, but yeah.
00:50:32 Murry
Thing I’m not doing that very well.
00:50:33 Colin
I have a story for you. So Russell T.
00:50:38 Colin
To actually live next door to a really good.
00:50:40 Colin
Friend of mine.
00:50:43 Colin
And so this friend has.
00:50:45 Colin
Saying to me, yeah, Russell would would come round for dinner in Whalley range with them. And now as he watches Russell T shows, he says I told him that.
00:50:57 Colin
Brilliant. But I digress. They’re recording the canal street scenes for queer as folk. Yeah. So everyone’s been invited down.
00:51:08 Colin
You know you’re there on central three in the morning or whatever. And so various of my friends were there. I was, I was on a conference in London so I couldn’t attend.
00:51:19 Colin
I have a a a crew alarm that I say to some people, which is no, you never made it into queries fault, but they did kind of cut you into walking with dinosaurs.
And things like that.
00:51:31 Colin
But there was a friend of mine who, you know, thought he was going to be in it. So he tells everyone.
00:51:38 Colin
You have to watch because we were all there. There’ll be a canal street scene and I shall be there in this brand new gay programme.
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:47 Colin
So I worked at the bank, he told everyone at the bank. All the managers TuneIn. We’re all sitting there with our cup of.
00:51:53 Colin
Coffee or our?
00:51:54 Colin
Breaker, because that’s what we used to do.
00:51:56 Colin
When watching first, yeah, first episode of Queer as folk. So there’s the 15 year old being rimmed by.
00:51:57 Murry
Yeah, colour breaker.
00:52:05 Speaker 3
On national telly.
00:52:07 Colin
But I can’t.
00:52:10 Colin
I mean like.
00:52:12 Speaker 3
I’ve told everyone in the pouch. What’s this?
00:52:17 Colin
He was off work.
00:52:18 Colin
For a week, he couldn’t look at his phone.
00:52:22 Murry
And did he actually appear at the?
00:52:23 Murry
End no.
00:52:26 Colin
No, all he wanted us.
00:52:27 Colin
Was in it and that was, you know, kind of bumming a cigarette off someone else.
00:52:31 Colin
And it was like you.
00:52:31 Colin
Know A 5 second clip.
00:52:35 Murry
I need to talk to you about a section called how I got my lottery numbers.
00:52:41 Murry
Very sadly, in the early 90s, I recorded every single one of.
00:52:46 Murry
My dates.
00:52:47 Murry
Wrote wrote the ball down. This is, you know, there was no Internet, there was no telly, but there was a telly. That’s not that bad.
00:52:52 Colin
I’m glad.
00:52:54 Colin
The colour of the book is black, which I’m.
00:52:55 Murry
It it it is, but it’s not quite a little black book, but they’re all in here. So it’s a diary of.
00:52:56 Colin
Glad to see.
00:53:03 Murry
The Diaries, 94. But then I’ve gone back. Oh, it started August 93, and then I’ve gone back and I’ve I’ve annotated them.
00:53:11 Murry
So it’s the 1st 49 by chance and when when lottery numbers when the lottery first came out in 9394.
00:53:18 Murry
I was like, how am I going to?
00:53:19 Murry
Choose my 6.
00:53:20 Murry
Lottery numbers. So I went back to my what we know as a ****** fax and chose the six.
00:53:25 Murry
Best *****.
00:53:27 Murry
Of it. Yeah. So. And they became an autonomous. But in this game, I’m going to ask you to to give me a number between one and 49.
00:53:35 Murry
And then I will tell you if it’s a lottery number and if not, but then I will also tell you who it was and see.
00:53:41 Murry
If I can remember what the story was.
00:53:43 Colin
OK, 30 seconds.
00:53:44 Murry
37 isn’t isn’t a lottery number that I chose, but 37 begins with J. So now I have to go back.
00:53:53 Murry
Do you know how?
00:53:54 Murry
This system worked for me in 1990.
00:53:56 Murry
4 Where where is jade now? Do I have to go back to the oh, so I’ve gone back to the beginning section now. So in the article section at the front KLJ.
00:54:05 Murry
Oh uh, 37 oh was a.
00:54:09 Murry
Bloke called John.
00:54:11 Murry
This was in 19 September 1994 in the gay sauna in in Bury.
00:54:19 Murry
Ohh, he didn’t score very well. He’s got 3 fives now. I can’t remember. He used to get 3 marks. I don’t know what they all were. So got 3 fives and.
00:54:29 Murry
And a mate went all the way to Nero’s sauna. Up in in Bury on a Saturday night.
00:54:32 Colin
Oh my God.
00:54:34 Murry
We had in my little two CV and we’re sitting around in the in the Jacuzzi and we were just like, oh, every man looking at.
00:54:41 Murry
Us and then we.
00:54:43 Murry
Had a whale of a time, cause and saunas.
00:54:45 Murry
There a a bit quite a big thing back then there.
00:54:47 Murry
Was nowhere else to go, was there?
00:54:49 Colin
Yeah, I remember I went with.
00:54:50 Colin
A friend who was solma in Manchester.
00:54:53 Colin
And I’m sitting in the Jacuzzi and my friend says to me that guy was giving you the eye, you know, he was really up for it and thinking.
00:55:01 Colin
I didn’t have my glasses on.
00:55:02 Colin
Couldn’t see you couldn’t see.
00:55:04 Colin
You know, he could have it. Could have been something that in his raincoat, wearing his cheaper Smarties now, still going well, yeah, so.
00:55:13 Colin
It didn’t work for me things.
00:55:14 Colin
Like that? What?
00:55:14 Murry
No. Well, I didn’t need glasses back then. So it was. Yeah, but so we met in a pool in a Jacuzzi.
00:55:19 Murry
Then you go into the private restrooms, don’t you? Which is just basically a rubber covered sheet, a mattress in a in a darkened room. Yes. Yeah. Got to know John quite well.
00:55:21 Colin
You do.
00:55:26 Colin
Well, I know, I know.
00:55:30 Colin
Do outreach at Northwoods or and and.
00:55:36 Colin
You know it’s.
00:55:36 Colin
One of the biggest venues in the country now.
00:55:40 Colin
So, but I’m there, fully clothed, sitting in the foyer and, you know, people will be sitting with you having this little chat about their health and you’re asking them, you know, is something that you need to tell me about and meantime.
00:55:54 Colin
Floors. You can hear this.
00:55:56 Speaker 3
Oh yeah. OK. Oh.
00:56:03 Murry
That didn’t happen in Neros.
00:56:06 Colin
None of that. Thank you very much.
00:56:08 Colin
You went on the wrong back.
00:56:09 Murry
I did. I did. I went on a.
00:56:11 Murry
Saturday night.
00:56:12 Murry
In in in September, I have very strange September 19th.
00:56:16 Colin
I I will share with you another tale that I’ve got permission.
00:56:19 Colin
To tell which is.
00:56:22 Colin
About now we’ve we’ve mentioned before about toilets.
00:56:26 Colin
And there was a friend of mine who was getting a few phone calls. So again, this is before.
00:56:32 Colin
Or the Internet. OK, just got into.
00:56:35 Colin
The the era of the mobile phone.
00:56:37 Murry
OK, the Vodafone you have dialled has not responded. It may respond if you try again.
00:56:42 Colin
OK, so he was getting calls and saying. I’ve seen you. I’ve seen your advert.
Oh yes.
00:56:49 Colin
And it’s like what it’s like I’ve seen it advert, so he rings another friend of him and says have you written my number on the toilet wall? And I think it was at the CALHERN in London. Wow.
00:57:02 Colin
It was like, yes, I did. Yeah. Yes, I did. It’s a lot of fun.
00:57:02 Murry
A busy old cottet.
00:57:06 Colin
Isn’t it? It’s?
00:57:06 Colin
Like how dare you?
00:57:08 Colin
How dare you? So you rushed down to the call?
00:57:10 Colin
Home looked and there’s his number saying, you know, for a.
00:57:13 Colin
Good time you.
00:57:15 Colin
Know with your legs at the ceiling? Contact.
00:57:18 Colin
And there’s this number.
00:57:20 Colin
And he said I couldn’t believe it. He’d actually written my number onto the Charlotte Wall in the cold hand without my permission. I was so shocked that I only answered three of the people who got in touch. Well.
00:57:35 Colin
So I guess things that people will get up to now remember, you know as a as a kid, you know you’re going to these loos and it was.
00:57:37 Murry
Hey, Mama.
00:57:41 Colin
Either kind of.
00:57:42 Colin
Death to whoever. Because you weren’t in the right football.
00:57:44 Colin
Team or sometimes you would.
00:57:46 Colin
See these little stories with, you know, kind of.
00:57:50 Colin
With comments and all the.
00:57:52 Colin
Rest of it. So it was.
00:57:53 Colin
You know it, it was.
00:57:54 Colin
Our version of of you know.
00:57:56 Colin
Kind of tweets and replies. Yeah. You know, for a good time, but underneath would be. Don’t think of it as that much of a good time or or what’s your number then and there.
00:58:05 Colin
Be a thread.
00:58:06 Colin
A thread in the toilet.
00:58:09 Murry
God, I never really went in in toilets and did that. I never and I’ve never found a number on the back.
00:58:15 Murry
Of the wall.
00:58:15 Murry
I thought it could be, you know, leading down the wrong path and it ended up being beaten up.
00:58:20 Colin
Yeah, well, I think my one experience and this wasn’t a sexual experience. I was in London and I needed to to do a #2.
00:58:33 Colin
I was desperate, but you know, and I can’t see classic guy. So I went to the the National Portrait Gallery.
00:58:40 Colin
Thinking they’re going to have nice sleeves in there, so we handed through, got to the toilets and the National Portrait Gallery.
00:58:46 Colin
Could you get into a cubicle now? There are people on the floor looking underneath the doors. There are banging and and I’m like, I’m desperate. I need a poo.
00:58:57 Colin
By the time I finally got got in there to put everything on the floor to make certain that.
00:59:01 Colin
No one interrupted.
00:59:02 Colin
Me and you know you got your finger in the.
00:59:03 Colin
Hole in the wall. Just been fast.
00:59:05 Colin
My toilet roll.
00:59:06 Colin
I need I need to use this for the purpose to which it was intended there.
00:59:12 Colin
I was telling another.
00:59:13 Colin
Friend, who lived in London said Ohh yes.
00:59:15 Colin
It’s notorious that the the National Portrait Gallery, you know, you should know better than to try and use a men’s loo in London for for it’s genuine purposes intended.
And then three.
00:59:24 Murry
Yeah, that’s why metal plates exist now on these walls between cubicles. And then you see all kinds of things appear.
00:59:30 Murry
Yeah. Good Lord. Things things push through because that takes a lot of drilling. That hole though, to make that that happen, God.
00:59:31 Colin
Absolutely all things pushed through. Like what?
00:59:37 Colin
Those and if ever, if ever you get.
00:59:40 Colin
The chance.
00:59:41 Colin
Then you know there’s a piece of nostalgia you can go for a book called the Glory Hole Murders.
00:59:48 Murry
That’s a nice ending. In all good booksellers.
00:59:54 Colin
Yeah, I don’t think it’s like it’s.
00:59:55 Colin
Christie, but it’s there.
00:59:55 Murry
That no does. It doesn’t involve any garden shears, does it?
00:59:59 Colin
I don’t think so, no.
01:00:00 Colin
I don’t think so. Not really.
01:00:04 Murry
Thank you for listening to today’s podcast. If you’d like to get involved or have any comments to make, e-mail me at podcast at romp Dot Media.


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