Episode 4 – Tim and The Number 35
Trancript – This is autogenerated so may not always make sense:
Murry
This is episode four of the ROMP podcast. In today’s episode, we’re going to be talking to Tim, who’s originally from Canada but now lives in London, and we’re going to be talking to him about his experience of living in Ontario in Canada, moving to Alaska, moving to London, and all the funny stories that happened in between this some lovely moments in this show. Including a little bit of crying now. There is also some dark humour. We do laugh a little bit about death, so if you are nervous of that kind of thing or might find that little bit of. Letting perhaps don’t listen to this one, but anyway, lookout for references for Wonder Woman. There’s a brilliant little story there, a little bit of Raiders of the Lost Ark. And a Chinese restaurant in Anchorage. But let’s get going. So my first question to Tim was what brought You to Britain?
Tim
a a man. Ohh yes. And sometimes we make great decisions in our life. Sometimes we make bad decisions in our life, but sometimes bad decisions can turn into good decisions. I before I moved here, I was living in Orlando, FL.
Murry
OK. So we haven’t, we didn’t just come straight from Canada then we’ve been we’ve been about.
Tim
A bit. Oh, do you want me to go back?
Speaker
Should should we go? Should.
Murry
We go way back then, yeah.
Speaker
Let’s go, let’s.
Tim
Go way back. Yeah, back.
Murry
Let’s go way.
Tim
So I was adopted at birth and I was born to a Jewish family. Who? My my birth mother, who unfortunately has passed and I never got to meet, just decided not to. The coat hanger thing with me. So which which I’m happy. But I was then adopted into an evangelical Christian.
Murry
OK.
Tim
Yeah. Which was quite interesting, especially growing up because the big secrets in our family. Was that I was adopted and all of my other extended family were like, why doesn’t he know?
Murry
Ohh see everybody in the family but unions.
Tim
Everybody, everybody knew but me, yeah.
Murry
Wow. And this is the this is the early 70s.
Tim
Yeah, very early 70s.
Murry
It’s good cause I can remember cause we’re the. Same age I can. I know where that was. I don’t have to do any maths. Today and and. Is this in Ontario?
Tim
Yes. Yeah. And so they, they were all so confused about, you know, why my adopted parents never told me. And so, you know, here’s this little Jewish baby who was in foster care for three years, going into an evangelical Christian household. Wow. But my my mother and father. Were sort of diametrically opposed. My my mom bought into all the Jesus ********. And my dad sort of just wanted to keep Mom happy so he would show up on Sunday mornings and try not to find the ridiculousness in this.
Murry
Well, it must have been difficult.
Tim
Oh, Oh yeah. I I remember one time she dragged us to a Pentecostal church, which is. I don’t. I don’t think they have it in the UK, but it’s it’s holy rollers, they’re they the the spirit of God overtakes them.
Murry
No, we don’t. OK. And possesses them.
Tim
Yeah. Oh, yeah. One time she decided to take us right up the centre aisle and sit in the front Pew of the church. And then my older sister, of course, would always show up late, and she showed up with this huge black like Zorro. Like hat draped in this long, flowing black gown with the biggest silver cross I have ever seen. And Jackie O sunglasses just before the service began. So in the Pentecostal church they do something that’s called speaking with tongues. And that’s when God, whatever that may be, comes inside you and you speak in a language that no one knows. So basically it’s someone that goes. Blah blah blah blah. And then someone else is also possessed by the Holy Spirit and.
Murry
Excellent. Not to be, not to be outdone by the previous person.
Tim
No, no, exactly it. It’s a game of 1 uppance and they then translate so oh, oh, the ******** we go through. And so someone stood up in the back of the church and went. I have the Lord your God, and basically they’re just quoting. And I look over at my dad and I thought he was praying, but he had his head in his hands, but his shoulder blades are going up and down because he’s laughing. And then I noticed at 7 years of age that my dad’s laughing. So whatever daddy does. So does sun do? But I have like a loud, almost wicked witch of the West cackle, and that came out. So poor Mom had to take us out of this ******* church service right in the middle. March us up the centre aisle and it was the most embarrassing thing in her life.
Murry
Oh God, you poor mother. She must have been mortified. That’s brilliant. So why not tell me a little bit more now about your formative years?
Tim
Yeah, looking back, you probably didn’t know it at the time, but looking in retrospect, you understood. I remember I was probably 8 or 9 and. And I had a friend in school, Jay Brown. Jay Brown was gorgeous. Jay Brown was like Zac Efron. And so I remember one time going to his house and, like, knocking out the door because that’s what we used to do. We didn’t have mobile phones. Yeah, you go around, you knock up? Yep. Can. Can Jay come out and play? And so they said, well, he’s having his.
Murry
Yeah, just go round. Yeah. You just got on the off chance, didn’t you? Yeah. Yep.
Tim
Dinner right now and so. I said it’s OK, I’ll. Wait. And I didn’t realise until years later why I wanted to wait, because I thought Jay was such a dish. And I remember one time I was going out shopping with my mom, she said you can pick out a toy and you can pick out a superhero doll for yourself. And I picked out Wonder Woman.
Murry
And the original. Wonder Woman, she was fabulous, wasn’t she? Absolutely loved.
Tim
Oh yeah.
Murry
Her Linda. Linda Carter.
Tim
Linda Linda Carter. My my dad got in such trouble when that the premiere of that show happened. And I still remember it. This day we’re watching it as it first comes on screen, she twirls around and she does her little pose on the screen where it says Linda Carter underneath her and he goes wow, look at the **** on her and he got a bit of a smack from my mom for that. So anyway.
Murry
She turns. But she was beautiful, wouldn’t she? And you know, just anywhere she could go. She could whip round and.
Tim
Oh yeah.
Murry
As she was stood with the truth. And she could, and she could defend herself from bullets with wristlets.
Tim
On Oh yes. I I actually when I was a kid, I used to take toilet paper rolls and then the foil out of my parents cigarette package and and and like glue it on there.
Murry
You know. Oh, you’re creative.
Tim
And then take a you could get like when you would get like gold stars or red stars. Yeah, for whatever you did. I put the Red Star on there and I would walk around playing bullets and bracelets as Wonder Woman.
Murry
Sam, what did your mother think of that?
Tim
I think she probably went. Ohh. God, I don’t know if we chose the. Right kid to adopt.
Speaker
Do you know why she?
Murry
Did adopt you if. You’ve ever discussed that at all.
Tim
Because uh, she wasn’t able to have children. So I’m the chosen child and the the special one. But she was so into her Jesus that she couldn’t really accept the whole gay thing.
Murry
Right.
Tim
For years, at the age of 24, that’s when I finally went. You know, I just have to be me. But because I knew my my mom went to see Philadelphia. The films, yeah.
Murry
Frums that was going to finish her off. That was an awful film to have to go and watch.
Tim
And then I I.
Murry
Not only for the bad acting, to be honest.
Tim
I watch it once a year and then in.
Murry
Do you? Well, do you hate yourself that much, God.
Tim
Tears. Yeah, yeah.
Murry
I just think Tom Hanks in it is awful.
Tim
But then I remember her coming back and saying to me that she’d seen this film, Philadelphia, and she was in tears. And I’m like, oh, finally she’s we’re going to have this conversation. And she said his poor mother. Oh God, I’m like, Oh well.
Speaker
Those are the.
Tim
That’s out the window right now. And so.
Murry
And had you come out at all at this point, did she know?
Tim
No, no, no, not officially new and so.
Murry
Not officially new anyway. You know. Living in a. In a in a world of denial.
Tim
Exactly. I I wasn’t in denial. I I was still having some fun.
Murry
Well, and I want to know a little bit more. About that in a minute. Ohh. We’re gonna we’re.
Tim
Gonna get to that. But but then then I decided that if she doesn’t accept me, none of my family does, and I left and I left my home. And. Didn’t say a word to anyone. Uh, yeah, I.
Murry
In the dead of night kind of thing.
Tim
Almost, yeah.
Murry
Climbed down the down the drain pipe and off.
Tim
You went? Yep. I moved to Anchorage. AK with.
Murry
Crums that’s a long way. Why? Why just why?
Tim
Because because I I had met this guy who was just wonderful at the time. You know, we all have the, the, the, the few wonders in our life. His name was Mark. And he had this big curly hair. Some of my friends didn’t like them and called them poodle head, but I.
Murry
How did you meet Mark?
Tim
I I had living in Canada, we used to always sneak across the border and go to Buffalo, NY but yeah, so I I met him at a gay bar in Buffalo and it was a whirlwind romance. And he said, well, I’m moving to Anchorage and I thought, well, I.
Murry
Driven through there. Yep, yeah.
Tim
Needs to move to Anchorage as well. But I still need to sort it, sort out visa and green card. Uh, which I did, rather illegally.
Murry
Can we publish this podcast? Do you think they’re not going to come? They’re not going to go around and get you, are they now?
Tim
No, because we’re only using first names here and so there used to be an American show called 60 minutes that would expose things and it exposed how people could go to Los Angeles.
Murry
Right.
Tim
And just pay a couple of $100 and get a fake Social Security number and a fake green card. And so that’s what I did and.
Murry
So you are an illegal immigrant then?
Tim
I was an illegal immigrant 4 years.
Murry
Wow, you don’t look Mexican at all. No, no, there’s no walls. Keep you out.
Tim
No. Do you know what Trump would I I I would have just gone right past him and he would.
Murry
Yeah. Oh, that you know.
Speaker
What? That’s a really good guy there. It’s a really good guy.
Tim
But yeah, so then we moved to Anchorage and decided that, you know, this whirlwind romance probably wasn’t the person for me and this happened.
Murry
Right. At what point? How long are we in? We’re like weeks, months. Are we, you know.
Tim
About three months. Oh, yeah. But then then I was free, you know, finally I was free to play the field.
Murry
Three month old crumbs.
Tim
And so.
Murry
Far away from home, no one knew you. You could do and be whoever you wanted.
Tim
Exactly. And that’s when I could be the full me.
Murry
And so what’s anchorage like as a scene is a much, much going on, cause the whole thing, you know, we think of various shows that escape me on the TV that it looks depressing and you know, like like what I would call a Nordic noir kind of. And it’s ice. Dark. Is it alright?
Tim
Well, when? Yeah, when? When I was there, there were three gay bars. Yeah, there was one which was just sort of like the traditional Alaskan gay bar. Almost like that scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. When Harrison Ford comes in to meet. Marion in Nepal, but it was almost like that. Then the other one was a Chinese restaurant during the day.
Speaker
Right.
Tim
And a gay bar at nights.
Murry
OK, because that’s a good. That’s a usual kind of standard combination, isn’t it? Those two, you know, how did that come about? Why do you run a gay bar at a Chinese restaurant? Any idea?
Tim
Exactly, yeah. Well, it it, it would turn just eat on their on their head. In today’s climate they’ll be like, OK, do you want #34 or would you like **** and *******?
Murry
And you’re hungry again after an hour anyway, are you?
Tim
Totally. Even at the age of 53. And then the other one was sort of a cool dance club, which I I thought was, you know, wow, we’re we’re in Alaska here. And so you you had your sort of choice. But then, after a year I I had met another person and we hated. You can only say you’re in Alaska unless you have balls of steel and I don’t. It’s not just the darkness. It’s so cold. Like, how can I describe it when you go out and you inhale and you we all have these little hairs in our nose. It’s almost like they freeze into icicles and fall off. So yeah, after a year it was. Like whoa. So I found the next love of my life.
Murry
Are we going to say ecstasy now at this point? Is this because it’s like early night is for me? You mentioned dance clubs, and you mentioned going out with like and sounds like drugs to me that was. The love of my life for a while.
Tim
Well, I need to get the drugs in a SEC. So you just you just wait. So. But but the next love of my life. I met there and he wanted to work for.
Murry
OK, brilliant.
Speaker
Moving on.
Tim
Disney. So we decided to move to Orlando, FL and Orlando has got wonderful weather and it’s a wonderful place to live. However, the one bad side about Orlando is when someone wants to come and visit you there because you’ll say to yourself. Uh, you know what am I going to do for them? And so you’ll ask whoever’s coming to see you. What would you like to do when you’re here? The answer is always. Let’s go to Disney. Yeah, well, I’ve been to Disney World. Are you ready for this 57 times?
Murry
And I take it you’re not one for going on the rides then anyway.
Tim
Well, no, because my then love of my life worked there. We actually would go in the tunnels so we’d never had to queue for rides. If I had to go there. So I met two very famous people in the tunnels.
Murry
Uh, Mickey and Minnie.
Tim
Oprah Winfrey. Yeah. And then one time we went through one of the tunnels, and it looks like this Arabic woman in full on hijab, but white from head to toe with these very muscular.
Murry
OK.
Tim
Uh, four guys around her and I say that in closed quotation marks.
Murry
Was it share?
Tim
No, no. And you’re going. You’re going down the wrong path here.
Murry
Oh. Oh, OK.
Tim
Yeah. So it was a man and we we walked up to one of the security guards and quietly said, you know, my friend here works here. We’re just wondering who that is. We can’t really say I’m like, oh, come.
Murry
It was a mountain. On just tell us.
Tim
It was Michael Jackson.
Murry
Wow. Wow.
Tim
Yeah. So he then.
Murry
Didn’t the monkey not give it away?
Tim
Well, no. He heard the conversation and turned around and stopped and said hello to us and he said.
Speaker
It’s really nice to meet.
Tim
You and and shook our hands. And you would think it would have been the most limp wristed handshake you’ve ever. Had one of the most powerful. Wow. Handshakes I have ever had. We had it was, it was so bizarre.
Speaker
Yes you do you.
Murry
You have got a complete image of what you think he’s going. To be. Like this is the ROMP podcast. Were you out at this time and, you know, living a gay life, or were you closeted and what was that like in in early 90s, Orlando?
Tim
Totally, totally, yeah. It was. It was absolutely wonderful because especially Disney has always been open. You know, they they would have the date.
Murry
It’s run by gay mafia, isn’t it? But quite frankly.
Tim
Yeah, totally. Yeah. But they would have their gay days at Disney, which was great to go to because all the gay people wear red T-shirts. And as you’re walking through, you would see like a family from Arkansas or something that had planned their holiday for months and months and months. And then they would just see all the ******* going down. Oh, and but they were in the minority. We were in the majority.
Murry
And having a great laugh with it as well. You can imagine the times that you had being a big gay or being a big gay crowd in Orlando and Disneyland.
Tim
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Murry
Well, whichever one where Disney. But it was fab.
Tim
It it it was, it was wonderful. And you know, I I know we’re. We’re here to talk about. Dating before Grinder at at that time it would just be. You needed to learn how to talk to someone and how to how to have a bit of charm and you know, not send a message that says cockpit questionmark.
Murry
Yeah, yeah. Did you have any kind of chat up line or, you know, how and were you going up to people in the streets, you know, how are you? How are you? Getting **** love, basically. If you wanna talk about that.
Tim
There there would be. You know lots of cruising areas and I I remember the the flat where I lived in Orlando, this was for some reason I don’t know. I I I picked a winner because it was right in the centre of a gay cruising circle. So you you could go and you know, sort of like have a walk out put. On some hot pants. And then you would have cars slowly by you and you would sort of have your pick there to to do it.
Murry
Yeah, yeah.
Tim
Or you you could. You could go out to the clubs and. Look at some one from across the dance floor in that romantic way going, you know, I want to fellate you.
Murry
And you know when the cruising is it all? Because in Manchester we have particularly there was areas but there was no cars involved. It was. It was down alleyways and under a canal and stuff. Was it like that or was it mostly there was a Walker and a car and someone in a car cruising.
Tim
Way. Yeah. Oh, yeah, no. Like, it’s sort of like on the main what, not main Main Street, but but on the proper Rd not on an alleyway. Yeah.
Murry
Wow. And did you feel any risk at all? Were you bothered, you know, thinking, oh crumbs, this could be, you know, loss.
Tim
At the top.
Murry
You know the bad boys always look like the good. Boys, this the ones we’ve loved, isn’t it? But you know.
Tim
Yeah, you know what, at the time, I probably should have never did, but I didn’t. No, it’s and looking back, I’m. I’m probably really lucky to be with you here today. Because maybe I made good choices.
Murry
Yes, difficult to know. Isn’t it? It’s? You know ohh and you know, we don’t know who’s not here today because I I suppose it’s. And I remember there was only one time I went really cruising in the city centre of Manchester and was out on a Tuesday night, which is not something you do in Manchester anyway. And there was a bar called Austins and me and my friend were out drinking and it got a bit late and there was I missed the last bus home. And it was three miles and I thought, oh. I’m going to get home now. I hadn’t really got. I didn’t really want to get a taxi. Ain’t got any money, so I thought all I’m in the cruising area, I’ll just next time my car goes past, I’ll rub my crotch. I did a car stopped and then I have an oh, I know a good place to go. So we drove back to near where I lived. I thought this is good, did the deed and I got therefore got a lift home. So it’s the only time I did any kind of cruising. And he was very accommodating. Tell him.
Tim
That’s what we call a win win situation.
Speaker
It was definitely.
Murry
A win win situation, yes, definitely. And the the rugby club in Didsbury Park was it was very, very nice place to be of an evening at 3:00 AM. I can tell you, yes. But back to yourself. So we’re well, we’re in. We’re currently in Orlando, and then you you then came to Britain. So what happened there? What’s the scenario that you’re here?
Tim
So, oh, so, so yeah. Before getting from Orlando to Britain in Orlando, there used to be a gay strip bar and.
Murry
OK. And when we say strip, are we talking about taking clothes off? Not because strip is a a street of things isn’t in America as well down the strip, like Las Vegas, actually, actually nakedness, right.
Tim
No, no, no. To taking clothes off, yeah.
Murry
OK. Yeah. For everybody or just for the the?
Tim
I’m sure. Bar no, no. No, for for for the pole dancers pole dancing. Excellent. Yeah, it was called Todd’s place. Yeah. Then I I met this English boy. One of the pole dancers. And of course, you know, in your.
Murry
Right. OK. Excellent stuff.
Tim
Late 20s, you fall head over heels for Eddie.
Murry
You seem to have. It many times, I must say.
Tim
I know. Yeah, it does happen. You fall head over heels for someone who can spin around a brass pole.
Murry
Yes, when I do watch those videos on Instagram, I’m thinking like I can barely climb. Up a pole. Alone and spin myself around it whilst wearing high heels.
Tim
Uh, so he then had to go back to England. But I then was so infatuated. And remember, we’re still in Orlando and I found out that my adoptive father’s parents were born in London, so they, and it’s still something that you have UK ancestry right of abode. From your grandparents down.
Murry
Right. OK.
Tim
So I went and applied for.
Murry
And is that but you were Canadian, didn’t you have it? Would it not be alright for you anyway, being Canadian, cause we’re because we own you or something?
Tim
No, you still still. Own you own me. It’s. But you know you still have to have some sort of direct connexion like that, yeah.
Murry
OK.
Tim
And so I got that. I went over to meet him and on our first weekend there, I remember arriving in 1997. But I I got there and he met me at the airport and said we’re going to go out and party this weekend. I think on my on my person I had £500 cash in 1997, which was not a bit of a Chuck.
Murry
That’s alright. You know, I I would be quite pleased with that now. Yeah, you know, wouldn’t it wouldn’t pay this month’s gas bill, but you know, it would be nice back then. Yeah.
Tim
So we. No, not. At all. So we then went out to trade. Yeah. Yeah. And a bunch of other clubs. And at the end of the weekend, I think I had £80 left, but I expected that until I got employment.
Murry
Yes, yes.
Tim
That I would be staying with him and he then said, oh, by the way, my landlady said that you can’t stay. Yeah. So for.
Speaker
And can I?
Murry
Just what this what you spent this 420 pounds?
Tim
Well, sorry, sorry. Let me clean my nose. Let me clear my nose and.
Murry
I guess I. Yeah. Mostly that, yeah. Because because it was expensive then.
Tim
But betrayed the club in London also had its own in-house dealers.
Murry
Well, I think most clubs didn’t they. That’s why they were so strong on the doors, because they were inside anyway. They needed to. They were controlling the door basically, but ecstasy was £15 a tablet when I was taking it in 9495.
Tim
Oh, total. Yeah, and yeah, I used to go to clubs and you know, you would get 2 ecstasy tablets. Buy a bottle of water and keep filling it up in the toilets.
Murry
Yeah, of course. The fact they used to turn at one point, they’d turn the taps off so that you couldn’t. In Manchester this is that tight there and then there was a whole outcry about it because people were dying and overheating and stuff.
Speaker
Yeah, really.
Murry
And you know, and so and they made as well go to the bar and buy bottles of water and stuff. But they had to turn the taps back on eventually.
Tim
Yeah. So anyway, I’ve got to 80 pounds. And he said that.
Murry
You’ve probably lost that in weight as well. Haven’t you? Over that over that weekend?
Tim
Oh yes, yeah, definitely 6 pack.
Speaker
Yes, were the days.
Tim
Probably 8 pack at the time, but yeah, don’t ask to see it now because it’s it’s not too, it’s not 2 pack, it’s no pack.
Murry
I’m not saying you might either look. Yeah, it’s a whatney party barrel, which. You probably don’t know about.
Tim
But but he said that he said I couldn’t stay with him. Or my my fur after that weekend, the next 31 days in London. I was homeless. Yeah. And so.
Murry
And how homeless? Where were you? What did you do?
Tim
Like in, do you know where Leicester Square? Is in London.
Murry
Yes. Yeah.
Tim
There, there used to be McDonald’s there like, right on the corner. And there was a sort of like a corner shop on the office side. I used to sit there and that’s that was my pitch. I I I never went hungry. Because people would come out of McDonald’s and see the homeless kid and say, oh, can I go get you? Meal I used to sleep in the door. Wave theatres outside. Out of range.
Murry
I was a gay man, yes.
Tim
Out of range of cameras in the Piccadilly Circus tube station, the police would wake you up if they found you. But you know, they they were actually very kind and they would say no, you do have to move. On but no one was ever nasty to me. That way and.
Murry
So talk, talk to me more about the homelessness being a late 20s gay man, far of far, far away from home, with assumed that boyfriend had bogged off and left. You weren’t exactly go round his house every evening, you know, alone. What’s that like living on the streets? Because that’s not something that most people have. Never ever heard of or had the experience of.
Tim
No, it’s horrible. But I did meet a gay friend, and so we sort of looked after each other. And then there there was a hierarchy of homeless people there. Uh and.
Murry
Is that to do with that’s. That’s my pat. That’s my belonging. Yes. You don’t beg there. You don’t sleep here kind of thing.
Tim
Almost like the mafia. And then one of them got my passport. And then I had to beg £20 to get my passport back. Right and.
Murry
Right. So that was a control that was them making money. Off you.
Tim
Exactly. And if I didn’t do that and someone had to explain what this was to me, he said that he was going to give me the gift of Sheffield. Uh, yeah, they make not they make not. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, exactly.
Murry
Ohh steel that’s there’s a steel city. Make knives. Yeah, yeah. Going to Shank you. And so. Every night you went to sleep. Were you certain that you were going to wake up next day? Because we see some horrific stories that have happened to homeless people being attacked by drunks and things like that. Don’t.
Tim
We. Yeah, I I was incredibly lucky that I would fall asleep and just wake up when. The sun hit me.
Murry
God, that’s just unbelievable, isn’t it? I don’t know how you could have survived all of. That, to be honest. So eventually you’ve told me off air that you managed to get a job and a taxi driver kind of took you in and gave you a job. And you lived in. The back of his office for. Months, but how else did you earn money? Because I can’t imagine that you got much from that.
Tim
There there are also used to be like these women’s mags that they would hand out on the tube that had job adverts in there. So.
Murry
When you say, like woman’s realm or woman’s own or something, or we’re talking playfully.
Tim
I I can’t remember the. Name of them, they were just.
Murry
They weren’t wasn’t ****, it was just standards. Free. OK, cool, fine.
Tim
No. Oh no. No, not at all. Yeah. Yeah. Free free mags.
Speaker
OK.
Tim
OK, cool. And as I’m being very open in this interview, and we’re only we’re only doing first names here, I won’t say what the job was, but I then applied for it and got that job.
Murry
Is it was it to entertain women of a certain age and. Be their companion for an evening.
Tim
Yeah, yes, you. You’ve you’ve gone.
Murry
Yeah, I know the magazine. Yeah.
Tim
Right through me. No it.
Murry
Yes, I I. You know in the 90s it’s like I need a bit extra cash. All you gotta do is sit and. Talk to. Them, I thought. Did you do more than that? No. Yeah. So yeah. In fact, The Archers, there’s a storyline that that that’s an exact storyline at the minute. So that’s it’s come full circle. We can talk, we can talk about escort work as a young man, I think.
Tim
I actually did back and I don’t know if you had this in Manchester, but they used to have this in London. Which were gay chat lines. Yeah, so you would call exactly, and then you could go into, like, private rooms with people.
Murry
Oh yes. 0898 something something something. Yeah, at 50P a minute. Yeah, yeah.
Tim
I did a couple of escorting things and.
Murry
OK.
Tim
This is this is. Post hopelessness, et cetera. When I wasn’t making that much money but wanted to go out for a night, I would find someone. On there and. To go. OK. Would you want me to come over and jerk you off? It’s going to cost you this much.
Murry
Yeah. Brilliant.
Tim
And and you know, cash on the table beforehand, wanki tadger. And then now I can now I can go out clubbing tonight.
Murry
And ******. Yeah, and and if you if you’ve got that mindset, there’s, you know there is there, there is, there’s always the exploitation side of things isn’t, but actually. It was a it was something that service. You wanted to give. I am assuming that you were happy doing that. Yeah. And you got the money and it was no, no skin off your nose and off you went out, you know. So yeah, there’s no exploitation in that at all. You know, it’s the oldest, oldest occupation in the world, isn’t it?
Tim
Yeah, and and and the the few times I did it, most of the clients were so. Nervous when you would. Get there that it wouldn’t take long. For for. For. Yeah. Oh, yeah. For. For. For them to explode in gratification.
Speaker
So it’s a short job.
Murry
No more than a handshake and gratitude. Yeah. Wow. And. Was there a type of person? Were they generally? Or, you know that was choosing you. Were they an older man? Were they a single man? You know, was there always a type?
Tim
Sometimes, sometimes older, but there there would be a couple that I would Oh my God, you don’t need to do this. You’re hot. Yeah.
Murry
This podcast as we know is a bit about dating before Grinder. And how you get went out and got how you met people. So we say so. Can you tell me a bit more about the different dating experience because I when I sent you my details and the all the the info and everything I said think about the you know the funniest the weirdest the one that got away you know have any stories particularly come to mind.
Tim
Funniest and let’s. I don’t know if we could really call this a date, but so when I had first moved to London and then became gainfully employed, it still wasn’t making that much money. So I had a part time job at a bar at Bishopsgate in the centre of London, OK.
Speaker
OK.
Tim
And you know, I I I had a lot of fun there. I used to wear Marilyn Manson makeup behind the bar and everything.
Murry
A straight bar.
Tim
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No customers love me. Yeah. So I I then at the end, after we closed and cleaned up, I was able to catch the last tube home.
Murry
OK, brilliant.
Tim
I was on the metropolitan line and I saw one of my customers from the bar. Who is there were three people in the carriage him and then some old lady at the way at the end of the. And he’s staring over at me. And so I thought, do I or don’t I? And so I slowly parted my legs and just start.
Murry
Isn’t it? As Sharon Stones arrived.
Tim
I it was total Basic Instinct and then started rubbing my nether regions.
Murry
As it’s a sign, it’s the international symbol.
Tim
He got over and out of those big metropolitan line at I’ve I’ve not been on the metropolitan line for years, but they used to have these big high backed benches. When you sat across from each other, they came over.
Murry
Uh yeah, so so facing each other rather than all the way along the sides of the thing. OK, yeah.
Tim
Yeah, exactly. So he then came over and gave me ********. From Liverpool Street. Baker Street.
Speaker
I mean I.
Tim
Don’t know how far that is. How?
Murry
Long does it take were you were. You would like your old customers and very pleased. So it was a quick. Journey or was?
Tim
Ohh no, no. Well no no he.
Murry
That was that a lot of stops.
Tim
He was quite teasing in the way. He did it. It’s not it. It wasn’t his first rodeo, I could tell.
Murry
It wasn’t yours either.
Tim
Of course not. Are you kidding? I was ******* John Wayne by that time.
Murry
So that’s in, in public on the on the tube train.
Tim
Yeah. And do you know what thinking back on that, I can’t imagine even thinking about doing that?
Murry
Wouldn’t would you? Although, oh, you’re not gonna tell me. Like last night on the way home.
Tim
No. Uh, I think it was probably about a year ago. Coming home now you have your night tube and your night frame.
Murry
Yes, yeah, yeah.
Tim
I I had a very similar situation to that, but it was getting off at the same stop and following this guy and then he went into the middle of a communal garden or something and and and blew me and.
Murry
Excellent stuff.
Tim
Yes, brilliant. OK. So so that’s that’s weirdest.
Murry
Is that that’s the weirdest. OK.
Tim
Yeah, best date I remember. There used to be a club in London called the Astoria and that’s where GAY used to.
Murry
OK. Yes, yes, I thought the new name. Yeah, yeah.
Tim
And I met this. Drop dead gorgeous Swedish boy and we went out on a couple of dates. And this is before the age of mobile phones.
Murry
Yeah, yeah. All had only had landlines. If you were lucky enough to if you had. Yeah, you know.
Tim
Yeah, but I think I had a beeper then.
Murry
Ohh, you had a pager? Yes? Ohh. I had a pager. Useless useless thing. I had a pager and then a BT account.
Tim
Yeah. Thanks for.
Murry
Card so that I could you had to like dial 75 numbers into the phone in the phone box before you could get through and then it just charged it back to.
Tim
Your landline. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Murry
Yeah, half the things we used to do. Yeah.
Tim
But but, but what there was at that time, there was no. I’m running 15 minutes late. If you if you’re running 15 minutes late, the person you’re going to meet is ****** off. They’re gone. Yeah.
Murry
Yep, Yep. It’s gone. Well, no, I would. Have waited 20, I think perhaps.
Tim
Oh well, for this one. Yeah, I would. Very funny, but.
Murry
Two days later still stood there.
Tim
But but for some reason there were a couple of times that it was my fault and I can’t remember if I was drunk or if I got high. I didn’t meet him, but then I met. Him a few. Weeks later and he was like, like stunning, stunning, stunning. And he’s like, yeah, I’ve met someone else. And I was. It was like it was like it was like a dagger in my ribs.
Murry
You’re listening to the. Romp podcast if you’ve got a story. To tell e-mail. Me at show at trumpcast.com. What would you go?
Tim
Ah, OK, I’ll, I’ll.
Murry
Out to. Because other other people have told me about the leather scene they used to go on. What kind of stuff was it for you?
Tim
Thigh high white PVC boots I didn’t.
Murry
Think we were going there? Yes, OK.
Tim
With with a 6 inch platform, no at a stiletto heel. Wow. Underneath those PVC boots, skin tight, black PVC trousers. No top and white fur vest over that and this is back when I had hair, so I had sort of like anti Lennox spiky blonde hair at the. Wow. And I remember. So there were variants of that. But I remember one time going out with my then Portuguese flatmates who I’m six with three. So normally I tower over people. But with these 6 inch platforms I I was taller than God himself.
Murry
They ducking under doors.
Tim
Yeah, totally. And so we, we would always have our money for our ecstasy and our bottled water and our bus fare home. Yeah, that was always paramount.
Murry
Did you were you probably weren’t wearing underpants, but I used to put my drugs in the bottom of my underpants because you often get patted down. I thought you ain’t going. Round there. So I’ll you know.
Tim
No, no, no. We we always had people inside.
Murry
Oh, of course, yes, I always.
Tim
So we we yeah, yeah, we were good.
Murry
Have to scarily scarily try and get my. Past the man on the door, you know.
Tim
So I I remember my my little Portuguese flatmates, who were both about 5 foot five and I in these great tall platform boots. And this was at another club called Habit. That habit happened the night after trade, which was Sunday night, going into midday on Monday.
Murry
Oh, about. A bit worse for wear there.
Tim
We fell asleep on the bus. When we lived in Streatham Hill and the the bus stopped at Streatham Common, so for anyone who doesn’t live in London, that’s probably about 1/2 a kilometre walk.
Murry
Yeah, in that outfit.
Tim
From Stratton fallman. Yeah, we, we we begged the bus driver. We said we know you’re turning around. We fell. Just leave. Can you please just let us stay on the bus till we get to our stop? He said. No, get out. This is about 1:00 PM on a. Oh, so here I have these two little cute Portuguese guys holding both of my hands and I’m 970 feet tall. Going down the high St as everyone’s going on their lunch, it was like Charlton Heston, Cecil B, de Mill, Moses parting the Red Sea as we walked down the street.
Murry
Brilliant stuff. Yeah, now we’ve we’ve touched on on many, many things in this podcast so far. We’ve done going out, cruising, homelessness, you know, all kinds of different things, but. Talk to me more about your family. What are your parents like with you?
Tim
Today, they’re perfectly fine cause they’re dead. No, no, let. Let me encapsulate that for you.
Speaker
I shouldn’t laugh.
Tim
No, no, of course. But. But you know what? It’s totally funny. And I am such a person for dark humour that it does.
Murry
It’s sunny, yes. Yeah, just.
Tim
My dad died when I was 16 years old and he’s the what I thought would have accepted me.
Murry
OK.
Tim
So I remember.
Murry
Because he was at the Bible bashing evangelical.
Tim
No, he’s the one sitting beside me in the church laughing. But I remember that. And this was just a horrible thing. Like when they would, they’d go out for dinner or something. And you know, I would always go if there’s going to be a car accident. I hope that mom dies.
Speaker
Because you know.
Murry
Not really related, so it’s fine to thing like that.
Tim
I, but I didn’t remember. I didn’t know this. At the time. So. When he died, I was like the wrong person died. And that sounds maybe a bit evil and maybe a bit horrible, but that’s how I felt.
Murry
Yeah. And you? Can’t have those feelings? You were 16 years old.
Tim
No. And so, like I said, we’ve gone through that. I left my family. I went to Alaska. I went to Orlando and moved to the UK.
Murry
And just how old were you were when you went to Alaska? That was 20s. It wasn’t.
Tim
24 I, if I remember, yeah.
Murry
OK, so there’s a big period between 16 -, 8 years, because if I could do maths 8 years there of. No father living in Toronto or living in Ontario. Yeah, big period. What was that like? For a gay man young gay man.
Tim
It was it. It was interesting there, there were. There were cruising things where you would drive around. Then I remember there was one friend of mine who I thought may have been gay, but I didn’t know. And so. A bunch of us like late teens, early 20s kids, we would climb up this suspension bridge and sit on the top of it. Yeah. If if I showed you a picture of this, what I actually climbed up, you’d be like, oh, my God, you’re you’re insane. Yeah, I would never do it to that.
Murry
No. So did you ever.
Tim
Oh yeah, we did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. After going.
Murry
Oh, that’s good. You weren’t spurned then? Or castaway.
Speaker
Oh, no, no.
Tim
No, we had gone to a straight strip club and then we came back to the flat that I was staying.
Murry
OK.
Tim
And he was staying over and he asked if he could sleep in my bed. Yeah. And one thing led to.
Murry
Another and were you out, was there and was it any knowledge or was it just? Some kind of unspoken.
Tim
No, this is before I. This is before I left, my family went to Alaska.
Murry
Right.
Tim
Yeah. So this was like the forbidden fruit. Yeah, well, I thought no one else did. You know, my grandfather apparently went to my mom when I was, like, 12 years.
Murry
So you knew, but no one. Else did wow.
Tim
Old and he was from Germany and said Ruth, you need to speak to your son because I think he may be homosexual and you and you need to love him. You need to love him.
Murry
Ah, as in love it out of him or love. Him as he is.
Tim
No love, love him as he is. Uh yeah. And so.
Murry
Did she ever?
Tim
No, and when I left Canada and had had no contact with my family till about seven or eight years ago, I thought they all hated me. I thought that. What my mom felt was what everyone felt, but then I found. Other things? Uh. My cousin, uh, Allie told me. Uh, that her dad, my Uncle Dave, hired a private investigator because this is before social media. He hired a private. Yeah, he hired her private investigator to find me.
Murry
Yes. Yeah, you could just. Go on. Wow, he wasn’t very good was.
Tim
No. Yeah, it it wasn’t Magnum.
Murry
And did they even know you were weren’t in the country because that would have? Been a bit of a hindrance.
Tim
They didn’t. They they had no idea, it just disappeared and and and then she also told me another story when she was a kid, he called a family meeting. And so she she’s six years younger than me. My cousin Ryan is 3 years younger than me.
Murry
Yeah, you just went.
Tim
So he would, Ryan would probably have been about, I don’t know, 14 or so. She would have been 11. And so he said, family meeting everyone. We’re going to talk about your cousin, Tim. Wow. And he goes. But before the. Family meeting starts. He goes. Few ground. Rules, he goes. There’s nothing wrong with gay people. Does anyone have any problem with that? And they’re like no, dad, no. He goes good, he goes. Cause I think your cousin Tim is gay. It goes either that or extremely artistic he goes, but my money is on gay. Any discussion, any questions? No, dad, we’re all cool with him. We love him and he goes good. Family meeting is over and.
Murry
But you weren’t there. Ohh God.
Tim
Yeah. And I didn’t know this. And so I lost out on decades because I thought everyone thought the way that my mother thought.
Murry
Yeah. And how did that feel to be away? Because it was something that, you know, you hear less of it today. But I imagine it still goes on that. People leave, flee families for their own, you know, their own own mental health. Yes, absolutely. Or are thrown away, you know, thrown out by the families.
Tim
Sanity, yeah.
Murry
What was it like over in those years?
Tim
For you, do you know what once social media started, I did and.
Murry
Or did you spy on them?
Tim
My my nephew Jack, who’s now going to be 21 soon, I’ve told him. Hang on a second, I told, I told myself. I’m not going to cry on this podcast. I told him buddy. I was not there for. A lot of you’re growing up, but. I saw it from afar. I saw it in pictures and posts and things like that.
Murry
It’s OK to cry in it.
Tim
It is. Do you know? Do you know what I I used to see a therapist once a week. I’ve graduated to once a month. And we we sometimes forget. Especially as gay men about our mental health, yeah. And it it is not a stigma, you know the I’ll tell anyone. We’re like, yeah, just let a session with my therapist last night went great. That’s what we talked about. I’m feeling better about this. This is these are things that I still need to work on.
Murry
And we don’t, not everybody has that awareness at all or ability to speak about it.
Tim
No, I I I think we, I. Yeah, I think we do. I think we we need to, because especially as gay men because. You know, there’s so much more self harm, et cetera amongst us.
Murry
Is it alcohol abuse? Drug abuse? Loneliness. Yeah.
Tim
Oh, totally. So you know, we we sometimes need to grab that bull by the horns to go. It’s OK to not be OK.
Murry
Yeah. And do you think it’s? Related to being a gay man and experiences of, you know, we’ve talked about some of your experiences. Is it?
Tim
Around that ohh a portion, but a portion is that you know what is human beings? We’re all a little ****** **. Yeah. And if I was Prime Minister of this country, I would get a law passed that every kid. It needs to go into therapy because when you when you say someone’s in therapy that has such a bad connotation.
Murry
Oh, in this country. Oh, yes, we don’t. We don’t. We have stiff upper. Let’s no, we don’t talk about these things. We’re not here. No, no, no.
Tim
Oh my God. What’s the matter with him? No, it’s do you know. I don’t go to the. But do you know what I do? I go to this gym, I go to the, I go to the gym to look after my mental health. You know, sometimes my physical health, I should probably do a bit more yoga about my mental health is paramount to me.
Murry
And it’s, you know, we we look at the at young people today and talking constantly about health and it feels really weird because, but actually that’s something that we should have been able to. Do you know we’re both of the same age? So with what, 30 years ago, we should have been able to do that more, in fact.
Tim
Yeah. Oh, totally.
Murry
Imagine that how ****** ** we are. Over 30 years.
Speaker
It it.
Murry
Because it was difficult, wasn’t it? And it’s, you know, I think it’s just as the the experiences that you’ve had. That leaves a mark on your mind and and your your own gut reactions to things comes from that point, doesn’t it? The stuff that you learn as a child and young adults still have effects and you know it. It’s the nature and. Such a thing, and it’s it’s all there, isn’t it? There’s and I can pinpoint things that go. Oh, that’s why I respond to that. Because of that and I go. Yes, I know that. But I don’t actually do anything about it because it’s kind of burnt into me as that’s my reaction. So if you could do one thing differently. Back in the 90s, coming out, what would you do differently, do you think?
Tim
I could do one thing differently. Ohh. Do you know what? That’s a great question. And my answer to you is probably. Not the answer that you were expecting. Is absolutely nothing brilliant and let let me explain that answer, because although there are a lot of challenges and dips along the road, it’s made me the man that I am today and.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
Tim
Uh there. I I’m at. I’m at my most confident right now. God, it took 53 ******* years. Yeah, to to get there. But you know, when I. If I walk out. Of the arrivals terminal at an airport and I’ve got on a black fur coat and red snakeskin boots and a purple flared sequinned double breasted suit. I own the room, absolutely.
Murry
Music of the time. If I was to ask you to pick a song from. A playlist. What song stands out? Well, what song do you still play from that era now and why?
Tim
Oh, there’s one song and it’s got a great story behind. Which is linger by the cranberries.
Murry
Oh, OK.
Tim
And the story behind that is this is before I left Canada.
Murry
You know.
Tim
Always used it.
Murry
And you weren’t anchored down in Anchorage because we were all singing that song at the beginning, weren’t we in our.
Tim
Yeah. Yeah, OK. Yeah. I used to. I used to sneak across to the gay bars in Buffalo, NY.
Speaker
I diverse.
Murry
And that’s the that’s passport control every time, is it? How was that ’cause? I queued there for ages trying to get through. Was that to get?
Tim
Easy. No. Do you? Do you know what at that time? No. Because I I was. And I think now is a Canadian citizen. You have to show your passport, but at that time you could just drive back and forth. I I remember. I remember the the novel American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis was banned in Canada.
Murry
OK, there was number 911.
Tim
I can’t believe they would ban a book, but they banned the book, so I drove over to Buffalo and I bought it and I had it hidden underneath the floor like the floor mats of my. And I was so scared that the border people, we’re going to go. We think you’ve got American psycho got. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, no. So I always used to go over.
Murry
We can, we can read it in your eyes.
Tim
To the gay bars in Buffalo because it was sort of like escaping to another country like sheherazade or something like that. And I went to this one and I’d been looking at this guy all night. And he’d been looking over at me and you sort of give the nod and the wink. And then we got out on to the dance floor and linger by the cranberries comes on. So we start dancing. And then before she gets to the chorus, he pulls out, puts out his hand, and then pulls his boyfriend in. It was my first three. Was I?
Murry
I assumed it was going to go down so.
Speaker
Yeah. Ohh brilliant. Yeah.
Murry
And 1st of many. Or only?
Tim
You know, I I am. I am so not a fan of threesomes that that one was OK, but because it was magical and the cranberries and everything, anyone that I’ve tried after that, there’s always someone left out and.
Murry
There is, yeah. Yeah, it’s never like the films, is it?
Tim
Yeah, and and it doesn’t matter if it’s me or if it’s someone else. I’m almost like, oh, oh, poor them. You know, let’s let’s be more inclusive, but yeah, not a not a big fan of the group thing.
Murry
This is the ROMP podcast. Part of the show is where I get to talk about me and unusual and my lottery numbers, which is this is the ****** facts that I mentioned on other episodes. Oh, you’ve just frozen on me. Thanks. Oh, you’re.
Tim
Back. Oh yeah. No. Do you know what? You just what? This is where I talk about me. And it pies.
Murry
Yeah. Never thought all bustards bogged off.
Tim
No, I didn’t. I did nothing.
Murry
So I have as you know, as you’ve listened to the episodes, this was my genuine focker facts that I wrote everybody down and it became, for those have listened. Or there just happens to be 49 different sexual encounters recorded in this that happened between basically 1990 and 1994, and the lottery came out actually sound like a slag. But there’s been thousands or since. And and so I’ve recorded it.
Speaker
Right.
Murry
So I’ve asking people to see if there’s any interesting stories that I can remember from this, to think of a number between one and 49. Fine. And then I will tell you if I can find them in this book who they were, what they were, and what How I Met them.
Tim
Yeah, it’s more than 49. You ******* lie to me.
Murry
Oh, Oh yeah, this is this. This only covers 1994 love. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what? Pick would you like to pick a number? Let’s see if I can make this work.
Tim
OK, good. All right. OK, let me roll the lottery balls here.
Speaker
And the lottery.
Murry
I did that.
Tim
Ball is coming up at 35.
Murry
All 35. That’s not one that’s been hard. Hang on. 35 It says an AM right back in the day, my record keeping was obviously much better. What who was an EM who was 353035? Oh, I best not read his surname. This was in July 1994. He was called Matthew. And we met in Crews 101 actually was gay man at Manchester Gay nightclubs. We met there and he drove. I I’ve noticed on everybody’s car this is a sudden bit of me. He had a Volvo 340. Which is a really sad, really sad do. You know a Volvo 340.
Tim
I know exactly.
Murry
We got, we got an awful, awful car because actually I went round to his parents house once and they were really well off. He lived in his big detached house in a what’s now were very much a a footballers wives kind of area of of South Manchester and Cheshire. And he had the most amazing 6 pack from memory as well. And I remember going and having sex with him in a in a place called the Goyt Valley. Uh, which is a drive out into the countryside. And we had sex on this hill and uh for some reason he got completely eaten alive by midges and I didn’t. So. That was nice. He got his score was 7-5 and six. It’s looks 7 for. Fox 5 for the sex of the sex wasn’t very good. Obviously, he was only a 5 out of 10 and he got six overall. Therefore, the average of seven and five is 6 overall. So that was that was Matthew. Oh yes, it was. Yes, I won’t. That’s not telling place. I don’t know if he’s still there, but actually. I was looking for him on Facebook the other day, but I can’t remember his surname and there it. Is there, he goes. Marvellous stuff, Tim. I am going to let you go. So it’s been a fabulous nearly two hours there so.
Tim
OK, fantastic. It’s hopefully you’ve got some stuff in there that you can make good podcast.
Murry
I might be able to get 10 minutes. Out of it.
Tim
Yes. Keep the crying bit in. I think that was good. It was, it was genuine. But but. Oh yeah. But keep the ******* tears in.
Murry
Oh, don’t worry. No, it was.
So this brings us to the end of the ROMP podcast for today. I hope you’ve enjoyed it. Tim was an amazing guest to have on. We did speak for a couple of hours and as I said there I’ve I think I’ve managed to get some some really good content here, so I hope you’ve enjoyed it. And if you’ve got any comments to make or you want to get involved in the show, you can find all the details. On the website, which is rompf cast dot. Comromptcast.com. Or you can just e-mail me directly at show at rompfcast.com and I’m Murry and I’ll be in touch so we can have a little bit of a chat until the next time I’ll speak to you again soon. Cheers.
ast.com and I’m Murry and I’ll be in touch so we can have a little bit of a chat until the next time I’ll speak to you again soon. Cheers.